DA Matrix6 Mafia #1 (GAME OVER)

First topic message reminder :

Player list:
1:  Debi
2:  TricMagic
3:  CrimsonOverlord
4:  Pepchoninga
5:  Alisae
6:  Linda-Senpai
7:  Wingshine
8:  jjh927
9:  Kyosuke Kiryu

Game rules:
1) All decisions come down to a democracy. The moderator gets 9 votes.
2) Please place your votes using the following code. While using bold tags to place your vote is okay, using the following would be prefered. Your vote will not get counted if it's not bolded.:

3) Lynches will occur when one player has received the majority of votes. You may post during the twilight period between the hammer and the closing of the thread.
4) If unsufficient votes are made on any player, or a majority of votes have been made to no lynch, no lynch will be made.
5) Nights will last 48 hours.
6) Do NOT quote any private communication from me, nor any mason, scum, neighbour, or anything topics that may or may not exist. You may paraphrase, just don't copy it wholesale.
7) You MAY NOT discuss the game outside of the thread unless your role specifically gives you the ability to do so. (The acception to this is the Scum PT).
8 ) Days will last 4 irl days, or until a lynch (or no lynch) has been decided on.
9) Blue (#0099ff) is my color. Refrain from using it.
10) If I am for whatever reason unable to continue moderating this, @Lux or @NightBot will take my place.
11) Death is final, but a single contentless "bah!" post will be permitted.  Just make sure it has no content in said post.
12) The rules can be arbitrarily changed/added to by one party (me) anytime I am feeling greedy and/or evil.
13) Players not use factional and individual actions simultaneously unless their role PM explicitly says otherwise.
14) This setup is non-bastard.
15) Be nice, and try to enjoy yourself. BTW I'll send prods every 24-48 hours. Something like that.
16) I definitely did not steal this from Alisae.

Setup Information:
1) The setup is confirmed as having 7 Town-Aligned players and 2 Scum-Aligned players.
2) The setup is Matrix6.  For more information, please view the sign-up thread or the following link:  Matrix6

	A	B	C
1	Jailkeeper	VT	Goon
2	Roleblocker	Cop	Doctor
3	1-shot BP Townie	Goon	Tracker

I am sending out role PMs now.  Once you have confirmed your role, you may begin playing.







Last edited by DanelerH on Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:32 pm; edited 13 times in total

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Okay Look Pep.
This is a strat that's being used on MS by people like RC, Pine, mhsmith, -Grey-. You know, people that are GOOD at this game.
Not like you.

And having someone who is pratically CONFIRMED town in a 9 player Micro is WAY more useful then you think it can be.
btw Pep, as scum it's better to use a nightkill on the 1-shot BP so you can pick who you want going into Mylo. If you don't take out the 1-shot BP.

These claims help the JK, RB, and 1-Shot BP's winrate's improve as well as the Tracker Doc setup's winrate. Because those Winrates are fairly low. The 1-shot BP breaks the set up completely. (They're around 40% meaning the Tracker Doc set up is scumsided and the rb, jk, 1-shot BP set up is scumsided).

It's like you didn't read the reasons at all.

This doesn't mean shit to us. We're not from MS, it doesn't mean shit. We don't know who the hell those people you just named are, they don't mean shit to us. Completely null and void point.

Pep does and that is litterally what matters. As long as Pep understands then we're golden :D

@Alisae: Last game you were claiming that certain players were 'obvtowns' from Day 1 and that it was clear from their posts, not because you were the host and already knew their roles. So then, why don't you tell me right now: Who are the 'obvtowns' right now?

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Debi wrote:

As for every mafia game:
I claim Vanilla Townie
also /vote Alisae

/unvote TricMagic


/vote Debi


Debi, what are you doing? What makes you think you can just walts in, give a completely random roleclaim, and then give a baseless, unexplained vote without even trying to explain it? That's poor play whether you're town or mafia.

That's Debi. He claims VT everytime no matter how bad his strats are. Is it a gambit? Is it not? It's WIFOM that there isn't really a point in trying to dissect right now. But tbh I'm not really seeing your problem with it considering that post was made on page 1? Could you explain it to me?

Linda-Senpai wrote:

All I'm getting from Alisae right now is "I act like I'm the best mafia player here, I'm from MS, and I act like I know these elite players, therefore these newbs are going to eat out of the palm of my hand." Aka annoying ass elitist shit.

So you don't think I'm town or scum? Got it.
Either way I'm not trying to come across as a dick (except to Pep because he litterally diserves it) so sorry.

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Okay Look Pep.
This is a strat that's being used on MS by people like RC, Pine, mhsmith, -Grey-. You know, people that are GOOD at this game.
Not like you.

And having someone who is pratically CONFIRMED town in a 9 player Micro is WAY more useful then you think it can be.
btw Pep, as scum it's better to use a nightkill on the 1-shot BP so you can pick who you want going into Mylo. If you don't take out the 1-shot BP.

These claims help the JK, RB, and 1-Shot BP's winrate's improve as well as the Tracker Doc setup's winrate. Because those Winrates are fairly low. The 1-shot BP breaks the set up completely. (They're around 40% meaning the Tracker Doc set up is scumsided and the rb, jk, 1-shot BP set up is scumsided).

It's like you didn't read the reasons at all.

This doesn't mean shit to us. We're not from MS, it doesn't mean shit. We don't know who the hell those people you just named are, they don't mean shit to us. Completely null and void point.

Pep does and that is litterally what matters. As long as Pep understands then we're golden :D

Bull fucking shit. One person. Pep is *ONE PERSON*. You don't need to convince one person, you need to convince us all. Also, putting an emote at the end of your message does not help, it only serves to piss people off.

Linda-Senpai wrote:

@Alisae: Last game you were claiming that certain players were 'obvtowns' from Day 1 and that it was clear from their posts, not because you were the host and already knew their roles. So then, why don't you tell me right now: Who are the 'obvtowns' right now?

I'd say you're pretty obvtown.

Okay Linda, you're focusing on Alisae's argument here, but if you've missed my lovely logic wall then give it another go. The reason I did that was because I didn't think Alisae had explained the argument very well, generally giving the conclusions rather than the bases for following them.


The idea that claiming not bulletproof will make the mafia more likely to shoot you is laughable. Two scenarios;
1- we have a bulletproof, bulletproof claims and now, strictly mathematically speaking, you are a 1/6 to be shot rather than a 1/7, as are all the other town. Except that's not how this game works, and the mafia are likely to kill whoever they consider the most dangerous they can get away with without drawing suspicion. No offense, but right now, that's really not you.
2- we do not have a bulletproof, and it doesn't matter for shit.

So let's go with the maths. We're dealing with a 1/3 chance of there being a bulletproof. Dealing with a generous even assumption of 1/7 to die, 1/6-1/7 is 1/42, which is the difference made to your probability of being targeted in this 1/3 chance. Therefore, objectively speaking, claiming "not bulletproof" makes you 1/126 more likely to die in night 1, or 0.79%.

Do you have any other concerns?


(Sidenote: This is good use of statistics because it refutes an argument)

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Debi wrote:

As for every mafia game:
I claim Vanilla Townie
also /vote Alisae

/unvote TricMagic


/vote Debi


Debi, what are you doing? What makes you think you can just walts in, give a completely random roleclaim, and then give a baseless, unexplained vote without even trying to explain it? That's poor play whether you're town or mafia.

That's Debi. He claims VT everytime no matter how bad his strats are. Is it a gambit? Is it not? It's WIFOM that there isn't really a point in trying to dissect right now. But tbh I'm not really seeing your problem with it considering that post was made on page 1? Could you explain it to me?

Linda-Senpai wrote:

All I'm getting from Alisae right now is "I act like I'm the best mafia player here, I'm from MS, and I act like I know these elite players, therefore these newbs are going to eat out of the palm of my hand." Aka annoying ass elitist shit.

So you don't think I'm town or scum? Got it.
Either way I'm not trying to come across as a dick (except to Pep because he litterally diserves it) so sorry.

At the moment I don't have a faction read on you. You're being really damn annoying, but I'm not so sure if a Mafian would be going for everyone claiming not BP or not.

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Okay Look Pep.
This is a strat that's being used on MS by people like RC, Pine, mhsmith, -Grey-. You know, people that are GOOD at this game.
Not like you.

And having someone who is pratically CONFIRMED town in a 9 player Micro is WAY more useful then you think it can be.
btw Pep, as scum it's better to use a nightkill on the 1-shot BP so you can pick who you want going into Mylo. If you don't take out the 1-shot BP.

These claims help the JK, RB, and 1-Shot BP's winrate's improve as well as the Tracker Doc setup's winrate. Because those Winrates are fairly low. The 1-shot BP breaks the set up completely. (They're around 40% meaning the Tracker Doc set up is scumsided and the rb, jk, 1-shot BP set up is scumsided).

It's like you didn't read the reasons at all.

This doesn't mean shit to us. We're not from MS, it doesn't mean shit. We don't know who the hell those people you just named are, they don't mean shit to us. Completely null and void point.

Pep does and that is litterally what matters. As long as Pep understands then we're golden :D

Bull fucking shit. One person. Pep is *ONE PERSON*. You don't need to convince one person, you need to convince us all. Also, putting an emote at the end of your message does not help, it only serves to piss people off.

Yes and I'm convicing him the way I always convince him to do things which is to strongarm him into doing things because he usually doesn't know any better.

Hold on, I'll requote my reasons for you why you should be going along with this:

1) Scum often attempt to fakeclaim bulletproof. By claiming early, your claim has maximum credibility and take that avenue away from Scum in the later game.

2) Although it does not technically confirm the player as town due to the possibility of a Jailkeeper only setup, the lack of a counterclaim gives the bulletproof townie considerable leverage because scum fakeclaiming bulletproof have terrible odds at doing so successfully.

3) If there is no Bulletproof Townie, that information will help us in the next phase of breaking the game.

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Doesnt claiming not BP let the mafia know who to *not* shoot? Why on earth should I claim that?

Already explained why scum should shoot the 1-shot BP. Already explained why multiple times. Helps us figure out what the set up is, the 1-shot BP basicly gets to act as if they are mod confirmed innocent. We're trying to find out what set up we're in first.

I do not think that the Mafia would shoot a BP. They would not want to go into the next day with Town having the same number advantage over them, they want to narrow those numbers down every single night they can.

jjh927 wrote:

Okay Linda, you're focusing on Alisae's argument here, but if you've missed my lovely logic wall then give it another go. The reason I did that was because I didn't think Alisae had explained the argument very well, generally giving the conclusions rather than the bases for following them.


The idea that claiming not bulletproof will make the mafia more likely to shoot you is laughable. Two scenarios;
1- we have a bulletproof, bulletproof claims and now, strictly mathematically speaking, you are a 1/6 to be shot rather than a 1/7, as are all the other town. Except that's not how this game works, and the mafia are likely to kill whoever they consider the most dangerous they can get away with without drawing suspicion. No offense, but right now, that's really not you.
2- we do not have a bulletproof, and it doesn't matter for shit.

So let's go with the maths. We're dealing with a 1/3 chance of there being a bulletproof. Dealing with a generous even assumption of 1/7 to die, 1/6-1/7 is 1/42, which is the difference made to your probability of being targeted in this 1/3 chance. Therefore, objectively speaking, claiming "not bulletproof" makes you 1/126 more likely to die in night 1, or 0.79%.

Do you have any other concerns?


(Sidenote: This is good use of statistics because it refutes an argument)

In that case, no, I am not the BP.

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Doesnt claiming not BP let the mafia know who to *not* shoot? Why on earth should I claim that?

Already explained why scum should shoot the 1-shot BP. Already explained why multiple times. Helps us figure out what the set up is, the 1-shot BP basicly gets to act as if they are mod confirmed innocent. We're trying to find out what set up we're in first.

I do not think that the Mafia would shoot a BP. They would not want to go into the next day with Town having the same number advantage over them, they want to narrow those numbers down every single night they can.

They would actually!
Think about it this way.
Say you're going into lylo, but you don't really want to shot the 1-shot BP.
The 1-shot BP has a ticket straight to lylo.
The claimed 1-shot BP will not be getting lynched anytime soon.
That's basicly a conftown that basicly tells people how to vote in lylo. Including scum. Scum's votes are basicly controlled by the 1-shot BP.

Scum probably doesn't want someone doing that. Plus it's going to be hard for scum to get the 1-shot BP lynched. ESPECIALLY if the 1-shot BP has good reads.
So they spend 1 night hitting the BP.
And another killing the 1-shot BP.
Scum can do this especially considering if just about everyone else in the room but the 1-shot BP is lynchable.

Scum shooting the 1-shot BP leaves a lot of mislynches open.

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Doesnt claiming not BP let the mafia know who to *not* shoot? Why on earth should I claim that?

Already explained why scum should shoot the 1-shot BP. Already explained why multiple times. Helps us figure out what the set up is, the 1-shot BP basicly gets to act as if they are mod confirmed innocent. We're trying to find out what set up we're in first.

I do not think that the Mafia would shoot a BP. They would not want to go into the next day with Town having the same number advantage over them, they want to narrow those numbers down every single night they can.

They would actually!
Think about it this way.
Say you're going into lylo, but you don't really want to shot the 1-shot BP.
The 1-shot BP has a ticket straight to lylo.
The claimed 1-shot BP will not be getting lynched anytime soon.
That's basicly a conftown that basicly tells people how to vote in lylo. Including scum. Scum's votes are basicly controlled by the 1-shot BP.

Scum probably doesn't want someone doing that. Plus it's going to be hard for scum to get the 1-shot BP lynched. ESPECIALLY if the 1-shot BP has good reads.
So they spend 1 night hitting the BP.
And another killing the 1-shot BP.
Scum can do this especially considering if just about everyone else in the room but the 1-shot BP is lynchable.

Scum shooting the 1-shot BP leaves a lot of mislynches open.

I dont know what a lylo is.

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Alisae wrote:

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Doesnt claiming not BP let the mafia know who to *not* shoot? Why on earth should I claim that?

Already explained why scum should shoot the 1-shot BP. Already explained why multiple times. Helps us figure out what the set up is, the 1-shot BP basicly gets to act as if they are mod confirmed innocent. We're trying to find out what set up we're in first.

I do not think that the Mafia would shoot a BP. They would not want to go into the next day with Town having the same number advantage over them, they want to narrow those numbers down every single night they can.

They would actually!
Think about it this way.
Say you're going into lylo, but you don't really want to shot the 1-shot BP.
The 1-shot BP has a ticket straight to lylo.
The claimed 1-shot BP will not be getting lynched anytime soon.
That's basicly a conftown that basicly tells people how to vote in lylo. Including scum. Scum's votes are basicly controlled by the 1-shot BP.

Scum probably doesn't want someone doing that. Plus it's going to be hard for scum to get the 1-shot BP lynched. ESPECIALLY if the 1-shot BP has good reads.
So they spend 1 night hitting the BP.
And another killing the 1-shot BP.
Scum can do this especially considering if just about everyone else in the room but the 1-shot BP is lynchable.

Scum shooting the 1-shot BP leaves a lot of mislynches open.

I dont know what a lylo is.

Lynch or Lose. Basicly No Lynching in Lylo is not an option, and if you lynch town in Lylo then town loses. If a town is lynched in Lylo, Scum will control 50% of the votes and will win.

Usually lylo will occur when there are 3 townies and 2 scum, or 1 scum and 2 townie in a 9 player set up with 2 scum in it.

MyLo is if you MISlynch you lose. This means No Lynching is an option here. Usually this happens when there is 4 townies and 2 scum, or 1 scum and 3 townies.

What should I be telling you alisae? I'm thinking that I'm hungry right now I guess? Lmao

Alisae, with respect, I think you're wrong.

If we look at power roles for setups A and 3, the roleblocker in setup A can only effectively use their role by roleblocking the jailor- a jailor who will never reveal. Nobody knows when they've been roleblocked either, which makes everything more tricky. Also of note in that setup is that the jailor comprises the best parts of doctor and roleblocker with no disadvantages. They may want to kill the jailor just to be sure, but it's plausible that they might try to kill other people if they're confident they have the right guy to roleblock. In setup 3, the mafia will very much want to kill that tracker asap. If they're caught using any night action at all, they are confirmed as mafia.

So I think in setup 3, the mafia would want to be killing people they suspect to be the tracker, and in setup A there is no chance at all that they will go after the bulletproof, because if there's no night 1 kill then the jailor just jails the bulletproof (unless they figure out who it is and roleblock him)

kyosuke kiryu wrote:

What should I be telling you alisae? I'm thinking that I'm hungry right now I guess? Lmao

Talk to me about the game. Players in the game. Like observations you're seeing and stuff. Anything you need help with? What do you think are things you might see scum (This may refer to anyone who may be part of the informed minority, meaning they know who is town and who is not town. They know the answers and we are trying to hunt for these people) do?

jjh927 wrote:

Alisae, with respect, I think you're wrong.

That's fine. I skimmed why and basicly it has to do with if you think scum would PR hunt. Which is fine. I'ma quickly go into Why scum might kill someone.

Scum might kill someone because they think they are a PR. Self explanitory.
Scum might kill someone because they are obvtown. Also self explanitory.

Scum might kill someone because they are scared of a player. Here if the 1-shot BP was someone scum was scared of, I believe scum would take the resources needed to kill them. For example if Dan was a 1-shot BP, he's a fairly talented player, you were afraid of him. Would you go after him? I think you would.

Scum might kill someone because they have good reads. And if the kill won't stand out, it makes the kill even more better because not only are scum removing someone they are scared might get them lynched, but if that person was also obvtown then it explains more as to why they were killed.

Alisae wrote:

kyosuke kiryu wrote:

What should I be telling you alisae? I'm thinking that I'm hungry right now I guess? Lmao

Talk to me about the game. Players in the game. Like observations you're seeing and stuff. Anything you need help with? What do you think are things you might see scum (This may refer to anyone who may be part of the informed minority, meaning they know who is town and who is not town. They know the answers and we are trying to hunt for these people) do?

Well I'm new. So my input is meaningless tbh because I'm just watching until someone slips up. I'm no good, so as a first timer I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show

kyosuke kiryu wrote:

Alisae wrote:

kyosuke kiryu wrote:

What should I be telling you alisae? I'm thinking that I'm hungry right now I guess? Lmao

Talk to me about the game. Players in the game. Like observations you're seeing and stuff. Anything you need help with? What do you think are things you might see scum (This may refer to anyone who may be part of the informed minority, meaning they know who is town and who is not town. They know the answers and we are trying to hunt for these people) do?

Well I'm new. So my input is meaningless tbh because I'm just watching until someone slips up. I'm no good, so as a first timer I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show

If you want I can help you give an idea of what to look for and how to scumhunt, apply pressure. Those things.

Oh yeah Kyouske don't set yourself up to get discreditted by scum.

How would they discredit me? And sure I would appreciate the help lol

Alisae wrote:

That's Debi. He claims VT everytime no matter how bad his strats are. Is it a gambit? Is it not? It's WIFOM that there isn't really a point in trying to dissect right now. But tbh I'm not really seeing your problem with it considering that post was made on page 1? Could you explain it to me?

Linda can you talk to me about this?

kyosuke kiryu wrote:

How would they discredit me? And sure I would appreciate the help lol

They would be like "This guy is new, his reads are complete garbage and shit because he's new."

I'm going to basicly give you a bit I said in another game earlier on here, where I was trying to help someone else get into the game but they found the game overall confusing and it gave me sads.

"We have a focus on day play here. We try to hunt scum by determining who is opportunistic towards certain lynches, who slips information they shouldn't have and who is trying to plant paranoia in the town, for instance. All of these things can only be found out by extensive questioning. Vanilla townies should be at least as active in the discussion as scum and power roles.

We question people to find out if they are genuine and if their thoughts make sense, for example. This is the most important way to find out who is town and who is scum."

Day 1 is usually used to scumhunt and start to get the pieces so we can then put them together in mid to late game.

Does this help? Basicly you question people to try to figure out their motivations and intentions, and if what they are doing is genuine or not.

Ah okay thanks for explaining but man these walls of rants are a headache lol

kyosuke kiryu wrote:

Ah okay thanks for explaining but man these walls of rants are a headache lol

I feel you there. I'm trying to be a bit more concise so yeah. Atleast you're aware of what's going on. That's nice.

What do you think of Tricmagic's play so far?

TricMagic wrote:

kyosuke kiryu/town-read
Don't really see his vote on Alisae as anything other than need to vote someone.. This may change at a later date but I think he's good.

Wait.
If you feel like kyosuke's vote was forced then why are you townreading him for it?
I really don't see how anyone can be TRing kyosuke right now, he hasn't really done anything alignment indicative (AI). If you could clue me in here that would be nice.

Last post before bed.

You should probably look at my read on you Alisae, not my read on kiryu. Put simply, I see nothing that indicates an "othergame".
Whereas I'm pretty close to putting you two as towns, simply because of you helpfulness. This really applies to finding people I can trust this game, and your plan is one I can agree with. /Null/ for me means a very slight leaning towards the following. Whereas kiryu, I would put him at a possible town/passive, but I see no reasoning to go after him currently.(Says in a What can you do kind of way)

Missed Debi... of course I did.

Debi/Null/No-reads
Short post and nothing else. Pretty sure my image of Debi von Doomfinsmirch is affecting me there..

jjh927/Null/No-reads
LOGIC, that's capitalized. Once again, my thoughts get in the way here.
If he is mafia, I doubt he'll slip up...(Other than that cake reference they slipped by)

I think tric could be on to something but not much details since like you said, I mean I didn't give a reason for choosing you alisae, honestly thinking of unvoting soon, but not sure need more details. I chose alisae because I know he is good at this and applying pressure to people, so always go for the hard hitting, but honestly I see Linda's tactics rather suspicious too. Pep is too quiet after that one post he made

Also, TricMagic, another reason why I based my opinion on alisae, while he is helping the new people, he is scratched off the main suspect list, because he might know no one will suspect of him then, but like they say, keep your friends close, but your "enemies" closer in this case the enemy is the opposite team?

Can you describe more to me about what you're seeing when it comes to Linda?

Also kyosuke I'd be helping you as either alignment :]

Linda is defending his case too much when he is not voted against the most that's all, so it is a bit suspicious. Then again what do I know about this game lmao