Your thoughts on Netdecking?

First topic message reminder :

Surprised this topic hasn't been brought up here.

For the uninitiated; Netdecking is the practice of copying a decklist card for card and playing that list.

How do you feel about netdecking and why?

And that's perfectly fine.

If you have to netdeck then you're bad a the game period. I don't care if you're doing it just to have something to start with or not: if you have to netdeck you are bad at yugioh and need to stop trying to justify being bad.

It's funny that you explicitly ask for opinions, but denounce those opinions that don't equal your own. You might as well have called the thread "Netdecking is bad and you should think so too."

Now, please don't get me wrong, I am not looking for any trouble, but it's my opinion that netdecking only reproduces probability. If you thoroughly read my post you would understand why that is that case in my opinion.

Irate what are you talking about, Dark Dust has not made a single post in this thread other than posting the thread itself

If you're refering to me, I'm giving facts not opinions. Bad is bad and Shit is shit.

Skitoritto wrote:

No sin in being lazy and wanting to have fun withe the game. 

What are you talking about? Being lazy has always been a sin. It's one of the Seven Deadly Sins, Sloth.

I'll bet you everyone here defending netdecking net decks then tries to act like they are good at Yugioh.

Skitoritto wrote:

Being lazy is not a sing in my religion (Slavic).

P.S: Stop treating Duel Monsters as a sport, it's not even close to being one.

Yugioh to me is a mental sport.

Alikaey wrote:

It's a bit like getting work experience, is it not?

But even so, I often find that the community has taken netdecking too far. They simply aren't brave enough to make their own choices anymore.

"I wonder if Fire Fist are any good? Instead of trying them out for myself, I'll wait for some guy to top with them in a tournament and then netdeck them instead."

When I see videos of people showing their decklists, I can tell whether or not they netdecked by how they talk about their cards. "I run 3 of him because... he's just good. And 3 of him because he's good as well." There was a time where Dragon Ruler players had gotten beaten down by backrow heavy decks. And not one of them thought to even play Wingbeat of a Giant Dragon in their deck.

It's terrible. And here I thought Konami were spoonfeeding people by making these A-B-C archetypes, but obviously they aren't doing a good enough job when I'm seeing people run 3x Upstart in a 40+ card deck.

Simply put, netdecking is a part of the game. But when people use it as a shortcut to avoid having to do research on the very deck they plan to play, that's where netdecking becomes a problem.

I feel pretty much the same the same way.

It's pretty sad when some folks are unable to describe the reasoning for specific card choices or ratios, especially if they're making videos or 'articles' on their deck.

I mean the whole point of doing that is to explain those things right?

I mean I can understand using a published list as a starting point to save time, but when that ends up being 'the be all and end all' of research and development in someones deck building process, that is a real problem imo.

Skitoritto wrote:

What part of your mentality does it train?

Figure it out yourself.

Luna personally sees Dueling Ability and Deck Build Ability to be two different things and that you can be good at one but bad at the other, basically applying the Theory of Multiple Intelligence to YGO.

Deck Building is similar to or can be seen in a similar light as Science. Deck Building is basically self correcting as people test out ideas and figure out what works and what does work; Deck Building is essentially cumulative. Luna personally finds it a waste of Luna's time to basically do everything from point A when points A through N have already been done for Luna; it would be like someone proving how electricity works whenever they are designing a new electronic device.

Luna's opinion on Netdecking is that there isn't really anything wrong with it. Luna doesn't see anything wrong in starting at point N because Points A through M have been completed by someone else. If they wait for someone to finish Point O before they move on to Point O then they will be left behind and will be at a disadvantage against anyone who moved on to Point O on their own.

Luna wrote:

Luna personally sees Dueling Ability and Deck Build Ability to be two different things and that you can be good at one but bad at the other, basically applying the Theory of Multiple Intelligence to YGO.

Deck Building is similar to or can be seen in a similar light as Science. Deck Building is basically self correcting as people test out ideas and figure out what works and what does work; Deck Building is essentially cumulative. Luna personally finds it a waste of Luna's time to basically do everything from point A when points A through N have already been done for Luna; it would be like someone proving how electricity works whenever they are designing a new electronic device.

Luna's opinion on Netdecking is that there isn't really anything wrong with it. Luna doesn't see anything wrong in starting at point N because Points A through M have been completed by someone else. If they wait for someone to finish Point O before they move on to Point O then they will be left behind and will be at a disadvantage against anyone who moved on to Point O on their own.

TL:DR Version = Luna net decks

there is only one problem i have with netdecking and that is that i dont feel like im actually going against my opponent, i feel like im going against a fake.

I will admit when i was very new and i was bad at making decks, (still bad but not as bad) i did netdeck 2 decks, chaos dragons, and shaddolls when they were new. and let me tell you i got my ass handed to me time and time again.

what im trying to say is that if you netdeck your only hurting yourself cause you didnt put yourself into the deck and sat around and thought about different types of combos, and spend atleast a few hours googling cards which will help you get what you need.

theman506 wrote:

there is only one problem i have with netdecking and that is that i dont feel like im actually going against my opponent, i feel like im going against a fake.

I will admit when i was very new and i was bad at making decks, (still bad but not as bad) i did netdeck 2 decks, chaos dragons, and shaddolls when they were new. and let me tell you i got my ass handed to me time and time again.

what im trying to say is that if you netdeck your only hurting yourself cause you didnt put yourself into the deck and sat around and thought about different types of combos, and spend atleast a few hours googling cards which will help you get what you need.

You can learn about the different combos and such from just playing the deck though. Luna has found having a proper deck greatly increases the speed at which Luna learns the deck and how it plays.

This isn't to say Luna doesn't try to improve the deck, quite the contrary. You have to try to look for improvements in the deck at the same time, but rather than starting at point A, if people already finished point N, you may as well start at point N.

Luna you do make a good point in theory, but im not talking about the statistics im talking about it being personal.

I feel that the very reason you should start at point A and work your way to point N is to put yourself in it.

The way i think of it is that when you play a deck, your not using monsters to fight, thats you on the field fighting your opponent, and going through point A to N is the most essential parts of it because thats the building blocks of putting yourself out there, point N to Z is the fine tuning, and seeing what you could do better.


i know that sounded pretty dumb but thats what i think, and i believe thats what most people are lacking.

I believe netdecking is not right if you just copy decks and only put little changes it's just cheating but it is not cheating if you are trying to understand the archtype and you will later stop using the deck and build a new one i think then its right if this makes any sense

Making a Jersey or buying a finished one does not affect how well you hit the ball.

Well if you build your own deck, then check for example wikia to see the recomm. cards to check if you forgot something that can support the deck is okay.
But if you just copy and paste a deck in my opinion is bad even for the one that does it since he will never learn how to play\build its own deck.

Luna wrote:

Luna personally sees Dueling Ability and Deck Build Ability to be two different things and that you can be good at one but bad at the other, basically applying the Theory of Multiple Intelligence to YGO.

Deck Building is similar to or can be seen in a similar light as Science. Deck Building is basically self correcting as people test out ideas and figure out what works and what does work; Deck Building is essentially cumulative. Luna personally finds it a waste of Luna's time to basically do everything from point A when points A through N have already been done for Luna; it would be like someone proving how electricity works whenever they are designing a new electronic device.

Luna's opinion on Netdecking is that there isn't really anything wrong with it. Luna doesn't see anything wrong in starting at point N because Points A through M have been completed by someone else. If they wait for someone to finish Point O before they move on to Point O then they will be left behind and will be at a disadvantage against anyone who moved on to Point O on their own.

Turtle thinks Luna's thoughts on netdecking make excellent sense.

netdek all u want cant beat my dark magician dek

Jv1391 wrote:

Well if you build your own deck, then check for example wikia to see the recomm. cards to check if you forgot something that can support the deck is okay.
But if you just copy and paste a deck in my opinion is bad even for the one that does it since he will never learn how to play\build its own deck.

Yugioh Wikia is the worst resource for recommended cards.

Linda-Senpai wrote:

Jv1391 wrote:

Well if you build your own deck, then check for example wikia to see the recomm. cards to check if you forgot something that can support the deck is okay.
But if you just copy and paste a deck in my opinion is bad even for the one that does it since he will never learn how to play\build its own deck.

Yugioh Wikia is the worst resource for recommended cards.

This

that's the point. if you netdeck you'll put whatever you see, but if you wanna just remember cards you won't put all the cards you listed. You will read and search .-.

I'm surprised this discussion is still going lol

Why would it not be going on? They are just reformulating the exact same thing they have said before.

theman506 wrote:

Luna you do make a good point in theory, but im not talking about the statistics im talking about it being personal.

I feel that the very reason you should start at point A and work your way to point N is to put yourself in it.

The way i think of it is that when you play a deck, your not using monsters to fight, thats you on the field fighting your opponent, and going through point A to N is the most essential parts of it because thats the building blocks of putting yourself out there, point N to Z is the fine tuning, and seeing what you could do better.


i know that sounded pretty dumb but thats what i think, and i believe thats what most people are lacking.

Luna believes you see deck building to be more of an art, while Luna sees it as more of a science.

Luna works towards finding an optimal set up thus looking at the research of others accelerates Luna's own research. Luna will eventually end up at point N whether or not Luna starts at point A or uses the research of others to start at point N. Luna sees it as, if Luna would get to point N anyway, why go through A through M and be behind when Luna gets to point N, as people would likely be at point O or further, when Luna can get to point N and start looking at how to get to point O.

Luna wrote:

theman506 wrote:

Luna you do make a good point in theory, but im not talking about the statistics im talking about it being personal.

I feel that the very reason you should start at point A and work your way to point N is to put yourself in it.

The way i think of it is that when you play a deck, your not using monsters to fight, thats you on the field fighting your opponent, and going through point A to N is the most essential parts of it because thats the building blocks of putting yourself out there, point N to Z is the fine tuning, and seeing what you could do better.


i know that sounded pretty dumb but thats what i think, and i believe thats what most people are lacking.

Luna believes you see deck building to be more of an art, while Luna sees it as more of a science.

Luna works towards finding an optimal set up thus looking at the research of others accelerates Luna's own research. Luna will eventually end up at point N whether or not Luna starts at point A or uses the research of others to start at point N. Luna sees it as, if Luna would get to point N anyway, why go through A through M and be behind when Luna gets to point N, as people would likely be at point O or further, when Luna can get to point N and start looking at how to get to point O.

you already said that, and if we continue this conversation itd be going around in circles for weeks.....i dont want that

lets just say that netdecking is not always the answer.

theman506 wrote:

Luna wrote:

theman506 wrote:

Luna you do make a good point in theory, but im not talking about the statistics im talking about it being personal.

I feel that the very reason you should start at point A and work your way to point N is to put yourself in it.

The way i think of it is that when you play a deck, your not using monsters to fight, thats you on the field fighting your opponent, and going through point A to N is the most essential parts of it because thats the building blocks of putting yourself out there, point N to Z is the fine tuning, and seeing what you could do better.


i know that sounded pretty dumb but thats what i think, and i believe thats what most people are lacking.

Luna believes you see deck building to be more of an art, while Luna sees it as more of a science.

Luna works towards finding an optimal set up thus looking at the research of others accelerates Luna's own research. Luna will eventually end up at point N whether or not Luna starts at point A or uses the research of others to start at point N. Luna sees it as, if Luna would get to point N anyway, why go through A through M and be behind when Luna gets to point N, as people would likely be at point O or further, when Luna can get to point N and start looking at how to get to point O.

you already said that, and if we continue this conversation itd be going around in circles for weeks.....i dont want that

lets just say that netdecking is not always the answer.

Then how about this: Points O to Z are not always fine tuning and Points A through N are not always the building blocks. Points A through N also consist of the changes that occur due to format changes. For example, Shaddoll Fusion used to be more important to a Shaddoll Deck than El-Shaddoll Fusion, but due to changes in the meta, El-Shaddoll Fusion is now the one being played at three copies rather while Shaddoll Fusion can be seen at two copies. A deck can go through radical changes on its path to point N and it can be rather unnecessary to go through all of those changes.

Using Shaddolls as an Example:

Point A can be a first try at making a Shaddoll deck, most likely it would be a pure build. Some ratios with the fusions may be off like 3 Winda's and 2 Constructs (a lot of people were doing that initially due to the meta at the time of release having a lot of xyz centric decks).

A later point can begin looking at mixing in other archetypes. A popular one early on were Shaddoll Artifacts. The point(s) could also have the deck trying out the white and black dragons, testing out Mathematician vs Kuribandit. People are looking at more aggressive or more defensive styles of the deck.

Another later point can be the Denko Doll build, and at this point Shaddolls were rather focused on OTK's. However, at this point, main decking Denko is rather risky due to the popularity of Nekroz.

Right now we are seeing a lot of Seraph Doll decks. So if we were to set this at point N and look at the previous builds, we can find them to have rather different play styles. Shaddolls were rather control orientated when they first started. Now they tend to have a rather aggressive OTK happy style of game play.

At a later point, something else could happen to the deck and greatly change its play style again. Plenty of personalization can come from simply trying to advance to the next point, and the next point may not even be a fine tuning of the deck, it could be a complete overhaul of the deck, rebuilding it from the ground up, for all we know.

I don't see a problem with netdecking, If I make a deck Ill usually start with somebody else's cards and I'll change it to how I see fit. I'll have to put in certain cards that center around my playstyle