LESSON #17 {Solved by SkullStigma35}

SEGOC stands for Simultaneous Effects Go On Chain. This concept is what causes a ton of complexity in this game. Chains, although a rather simple concept, can be complicated by SEGOC and cause confusion among new and old duelists. SEGOC order is based on a simple outline that should help solve some of the more simple problems:

1. Turn Player's Mandatory Effects
   
2. Non-Turn Player's Mandatory Effects
   
3. Turn Player's Optional Effects
   
4. Non-Turn Player's Optional Effects
   

TCG and OCG have two different ways of handling SEGOC. In this lesson we will focus on TCG since it is what I am familiar with the most. In the TCG effects will activate in the order they were triggered. If multiple cards were triggered at the same time with the same classification (see above list) then you can chose the order of the chain (following the list). You cannot chose to place spell speed one cards higher than spell speed 2 or higher though.


This is were missing a cards timing may occur. When a card is optional and happens "When it is sent to the graveyard" and this occurs during a chain itself it will miss it's timing (unless it was the last thing to happen). To put it simply, you cannot interrupt the current chain to form a new chain. This is not inception. We cannot have a chain within a chain within a chain, it just aint right. Mandatory effects will occur after the current chain has resolved and form a new chain if it occurs during the chain. Optional "when" effects will not form a new chain since they need to happen WHEN it is sent to the graveyard and it doesn't HAVE TO happen.


Let's look at two cards; Sangan and Botanical Girl. Sangan is Mandatory and MUST happen. Botanical is optional and doesn't have to happen. Keep in mind, Sangan will trigger even if you have no valid targets in deck.


Sangan
DARK/Fiend/3/1000/600
When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck to your hand.


Botanical Girl
WATER/Plant/3/1300/1100
When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard, you can add 1 Plant-Type monster with 1000 or less DEF from your Deck to your hand.


Here is the situation.
I Control 1 Botanical Girl and 1 Sangan. I have a face-down Two Pronged Attacked and they control a face-down Bottomless Trap Hole, Trap Hole and 1 Face-Up Water Girl (Vanilla monster).


Explain the following:
1. I tribute Sangan for Zaborg targeting my Botonical Girl. Opponent Flips BTH.
Explain what happens.


2. I tribute B.G. for Zaborg targeting my Sangan. They flip BTH.


Explain what happens.


3. Let's say Botanical Girl is Facedown and I flip it. They use Trap Hole to destroy it and send it to the grave.



Explian what happens.


4. Same scenario as the last except I chain Two Pronged Attack to Trap Hole targeting all face-up monsters.
Explain what happens.


5. I tribute Botanical or Sangan for Cyber Dragon.


Explain.

Keep in mind the golden rule for optional when effects, what was the last thing to happen? if it was the last thing to happen it will activate, if it wasn't it will miss it's timing.

NOTE: Wrote this at 3AM so if you see any mistakes please contact me, there may be some.

Last edited by VantageSP on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total

Correct me for I may be wrong.
1: Botanical girl's effect would not happen since it would be the second to last on the chain to occur, because sangan sent to the grave, so when they use BTH, it would be first on the chain, then it would be zaborgs effect, than botanical girls effect should apply, but because of sangan being last on the chain, it doesnt
2: B.G Would occur since it would be last on the chain resolving after sangan which would be second to last finalizing B.G effect as a success.
3: B.G's effect would apply since the chaining of trap hole would be last, technically making it first on the chain, so B.G's effect would still apply.
4: Umm, for this one I am not too sure, but I'm pretty sure that it would miss its timing due to the fact that you would pick B.G and sangan, and one of there monsters, so even though trap hole does not continue, sangan's eff makes B.G's effect miss its timing doing to "technically" being last on the chain.
5: If you tribute sangan or B.G for cyber dragon, than both of their effects which ever one that you chose would be activated. Since they are being sent to the graveyard in a regular 1 peice chain.
So this is what i got for the answers, though I am not certain that all of them are right. So please as I said before, correct me if I am wrong.

1 - I believe botanical's effect would activate it was destroyed by zaborg's effect and wasn't the mosnter tributed to be summoned, basicly it gets put onto the chain. Sangans effect will happen because its effect is madatory.

2 - Botanical will timing because the last thing to happen was zaborg being summoned and thus looses timing. Sangan's effect doese happen because its mandatory AND it was destroyed by zaborg's effect.

3 - Botonical would get effect because it gets placed on chainlink and nothing else happens to make it loose timing.

4 - Botonical missies timing because the destruction of a monster is the last thing to happen. Sangan's effect dose happen because its effect is mandatory so it can't mis timing.

5a - Botanicle will miss timing because the last thing to happen is Cyber dragon being summoned.

5b - Sangan's effect will happen because its effect is mandatory

im pertty sure about my answers except for number 4 ._.

mimgrim wrote:

1 - I believe botanical's effect would activate it was destroyed by zaborg's effect and wasn't the mosnter tributed to be summoned, basicly it gets put onto the chain. Sangans effect will happen because its effect is madatory.

2 - Botanical will timing because the last thing to happen was zaborg being summoned and thus looses timing. Sangan's effect doese happen because its mandatory AND it was destroyed by zaborg's effect.

3 - Botonical would get effect because it gets placed on chainlink and nothing else happens to make it loose timing.

4 - Botonical missies timing because the destruction of a monster is the last thing to happen. Sangan's effect dose happen because its effect is mandatory so it can't mis timing.

5a - Botanicle will miss timing because the last thing to happen is Cyber dragon being summoned.

5b - Sangan's effect will happen because its effect is mandatory

im pertty sure about my answers except for number 4 ._.

Yes, but you have to think that, the first thing to happen in a chainlink will be the last thing to resolve, so by tributing for cyber dragon, the activation of B.G would happen last therefore it wouldnt miss its timing.

actually it would miss timing because the last thing to happen was cyber draogn being summoned whcih makes botanicle miss timing :/

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Misses_the_timing

and bot is a optional effect so it will miss timing where as sanagn will not

1. Sangan's Effect would resolve due to being manditory, but Botanical girl wouldn't since its effect is Optional and it was not the last to resolve, Bottomless Trap Hole was.

2. Same as the 1st, Botanical Girl's timing misses because it was tribute, but since Sangan is mandatory it resolves.

3. Botanical's effect would work, since her being sent to the grave was the last thing to happen, not trap hole activating.

4. Botanical misses because destroying Water Girl was the last thing to happen, and Sangan's effect happens because its mandatory.

5 - Sangan - Sangans effect resolves because its mandatory
5 - Botanical Girl - Timing is missed since her's is Optional and the last thing to happen is Cyber Dragon's Summon

Solved by SkullStigma35 DP will now be transferred.[/b]

1. I tribute Sangan for Zaborg targeting my Botonical Girl. Opponent Flips BTH.

BG misses timing since she was not the last thing to happen. Sangan will be Chain Link 1 Since he was sent first (SEGOC TCG) then Zaborg, then BTH. BTH banishes Zaborg, Zaborg kills BG, Sangan searches.


2. I tribute B.G. for Zaborg targeting my Sangan. They flip BTH.

BG wil miss her timing since she is not the last thing to happen. Sangan will start a new chain after the current one finishes.

3. Let's say Botanical Girl is Facedown and I flip it. They use Trap Hole to destroy it and send it to the grave.

BG will not miss her timing and will in fact activate. Nothing will interrupt her. If she is sent to the grave at the last part of the resolution of a chain she won't miss timing.



Explian what happens.


4. Same scenario as the last except I chain Two Pronged Attack to Trap Hole targeting all face-up monsters.
Explain what happens.

BG will miss her timing. The chain will go like this.

Chain Link 1: Trap Hole
Chain Link 2: Two Pronged

Now resolve backwards

Chain Link 2: Two Pronged will now destroy the 3 targets
Chain Link 1: Trap Hole now resolves without an effect since there is no longer a valid card for it's effect to destroy.

Since the last thing to happen was Trap Hole effect trying to resolve BG will miss her timing.

New Chain

Chain Link 1: Sangan

Now resolve it.

Sangan will start a new chain since he MUSt happen. Since you cannot start a new chain inside a current chain he will have to wait his turn and activate after the current chain.


5. I tribute Botanical or Sangan for Cyber Dragon.

Basically the last thing to happen is Cyber Dragon being Summoned. Since BG hitting the grave was not the last thing to happen she will in-fact miss her timing.

What's the reward?
Or can you transfer it yourself?

1. After sangan is tributed

Chain link 1: Sangan
Chain link 2: Zaborg
Chain link 3: BTH

The chain resolves backwards so BTH resolvs, Zaborg is destroyed. Then Zaborg resolves destroying Botanical Girl, and now Botanical can be activated, but you can't interrupt the current chain so the resolution continues. Sangan then resolves.


2. You tribute BG for Zaborg, and at this point you can chose whether you want to activate BG or not, but you can't interrupt Zaborg's summon so his summon continues and BG misses the timing. Zaborg then activates and targets sangan, and bth is flipped. Chain link 1: Zaborg. Chain link 2: BTH. the chain resolves backwards so bth resolves first and zaborg is removed, then zaborg resolves and sangan is destroyed then sangan activates.


3. BG is flipped, which is the first thing to happen, then trap hole is activated which is the second thing, trap hole then resolves and BG is sent to grave. since bg going to grave was the last thing to happen, it can successfully activate and resolve without missing the timing.

4. BG is flipped, trap hole is activated(Chain link 1), and then prolonged attack is chained(Chain link 2), the chain resolves and all monsters have been destroyed. BG and Sangan both hit the grave at same time, but sangan is mandatory and BG isn't, so sangan will activate and cause BG to miss the timing .

5. You tribute sangan for cyber dragon, sangan hits grave and must activate because he is mandatory.
You tribute BG for cyber dragon, BG hits grave and this is where you chose whether you are going to use the effect or not, but you can't interrupt the current summon of cyber dragon so his summon continues and bg misses the timing.


.....LOL NVM too late WTF, took to long to make this post and got ninjad..

Last edited by KB24 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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