What is more auto drive?

Me and Chovy have an argument over which deck is more autodrive, I say Wind - Ups whereas he thinks Elemental Heroes. So we decided to leave it up to the public.

heroes imo

They're both pretty auto-pilot. In my opinion, Gate variants are the other builds that require any sort of thought when making plays, whereas the Bubble Beat variants only require a player to search for Bubble Man, set cards, special summon an Xyz monster, then Miracle Fusion. That's it. With Wind-Ups all you need to do is have enough common sense of how to best utilize your monsters to make larger swarms, but they're all initiated with TGU, Shark, and Magician. Neither deck is difficult to use. The skill floor and skill cap of HEROs is relatively the same, whereas the skill floor for WUs is comparable to HEROs, but with a higher skill cap. Skill cap in this instance doesn't matter, so they're both equally as easy to use because of a same relative skill floor.

I believe the word is Autopilot, just saying.
And honestly, in my opinion, I'd have to say Wind Ups. Heros do have an autopilot, that's for sure, but Wind Ups seem to have it permanently engaged. Essentially all of their effects pull another Wind Up out onto the field or to the hand, etc... They swarm very fast, very easily, and the combos may be long, but they are simple and easy to memorize.

All decks in this game are auto-pilot when you've used them enough and have some knowledge of the deck's mathups. If you're decent you'll be able to pilot pretty much everything with little to no misplay rate. Wind-ups are in a sense the hardest of all decks to pilot right now. If you think about it they offer the player using them a lot of different plays. Such variety is rarely the case for any other decks out there. Most of them are slower than wind-ups and have very limited plays. The two decks you tried to compare have nothing in common play style wise. With heroes you're often in a situation where you have one out to a certain situation or at least the best one is easily noticeable.

Sasori wrote:

Wind-ups are in a sense the hardest of all decks to pilot right now.

What's hard about summoning TGU, Shark, and Magician? You net +3 to +4 from summoning a single monster because they do all the work for you. Wind-Ups aren't any harder to play than Infernitys (and even less so if you consider the 24 step Ouroboros loop and being hard-countered via Macro, Skill Drain, and Shadow-Mirror, as well as the inconsistency of their engine). Other than that, most people can figure out how to loop them. It's not very hard because if it were people wouldn't have bandwagoned them (including new players). YGO isn't a very skill intensive game play wise. The hardest thing perhaps about WU is building the deck, as opposed to actually playing them.

agree with sasori, wind ups are hard to pilot, your not always gonna be like magi shark or tgu magi shark, you gotta know how to play control.

Gustavo wrote:

agree with sasori, wind ups are hard to pilot, your not always gonna be like magi shark or tgu magi shark, you gotta know how to play control.

That's the thing though, I never said you had to play aggressively. WU has the ability to play in a controlling manner because of their access to Xyz monsters that do that. That doesn't however change the method of how it's done, since playing aggressively or controlling is done more or less the same way, but summoning different monsters from your Extra deck. It's not really a matter of difficulty as it is a matter of availability.

Danica, the Great wrote:

YGO isn't a very skill intensive game play wise.

This I can agree with. The thing that makes wind-ups harder to use are not the 2-3 simple game/shock master combos you can easily find here and there. Thing is you have to know how to react when you don't have those combo pieces. For example if you open Rat/Magician/Rabbit which can be turned into quite a board. To be entirely honest it's not even the deck itself which requires that much thought process, it's more the things you need to do to win when facing a player with a good overall experience who will try to hinder your plays. Most of the time you'll need to reconsider what you plan on doing based on your knowledge of opposing threats. This is of course overall understanding of the game but I believe you'll need to think more when using this specific deck simply because of the options it gives you. When for example you play heroes you might know what to expect and how to play through a given scenario but most of the time you'll have one single out so you'll be forced to risk. With wind-ups you can actually find different ways out of a situation and knowing the best is what makes the difference.

Sasori wrote:

Danica, the Great wrote:

YGO isn't a very skill intensive game play wise.

This I can agree with. The thing that makes wind-ups harder to use are not the 2-3 simple game/shock master combos you can easily find here and there. Thing is you have to know how to react when you don't have those combo pieces. For example if you open Rat/Magician/Rabbit which can be turned into quite a board. To be entirely honest it's not even the deck itself which requires that much thought process, it's more the things you need to do to win when facing a player with a good overall experience who will try to hinder your plays. Most of the time you'll need to reconsider what you plan on doing based on your knowledge of opposing threats. This is of course overall understanding of the game but I believe you'll need to think more when using this specific deck simply because of the options it gives you. When for example you play heroes you might know what to expect and how to play through a given scenario but most of the time you'll have one single out so you'll be forced to risk. With wind-ups you can actually find different ways out of a situation and knowing the best is what makes the difference.

Actually, this entire statement is something I brought up in my initial post. WU have a higher skill cap, but have a same relative skill floor as HEROs; ergo, they're just as easy to play, but as a more skilled player uses them they actually become better than HEROs. This is why skill floor and skill cap was relevant. I justified auto-pilot plays based solely on the skill floor, rather than skill cap.

HEROs are somewhat easier to learn, not that Wind-Ups are really hard, but I've seen more noobs fail with WUs than with HEROs, not even somewhat skilled players are perfectly using their WUs.

Wow thanks for voting guys!!

Wind-Ups in my opinion.

Limitless Talent wrote:

Wind-Ups in my opinion.

lol because you play HEROs

Heroes seeing that they require less thinking

To summon an Alius or Stratos - that is the question!!!

Oh my thank you Saso, thank you for showing me this AMAZING thread!! +1 to all the people that even compare the 2 decks - GREAT players, keep up the good work and summon them G-Heroes.

Since when do heroes autopilot? And wind-ups are not really that autopilot because since the loop is gone, you have to think a lot about your play. So many options unlike rabbit autopilot where you go like rabbit - laggia - set 4 - giggle on your next turn tour guide - GO!
Wind ups and heroes are broken in good hands, and fail in bad hands. I won't vote here :/

WTF WU never lost the loop

They just lost a card that would work good in it

Dude E Heros are auto pilot as f-ck

Phoenix King wrote:

WTF WU never lost the loop

They just lost a card that would work good in it

Dude E Heros are auto pilot as f-ck

With limited carrier, wind ups can't repeat their combo 3 times in a row, it can just be done once. Every deck pilots, it just all depends on the player and the way it is used. I don't see how do heroes autopilot much if you can set up a lot of things with them, just like in wind ups and six sams.

UchihaShisui wrote:

Phoenix King wrote:

WTF WU never lost the loop

They just lost a card that would work good in it

Dude E Heros are auto pilot as f-ck

With limited carrier, wind ups can't repeat their combo 3 times in a row, it can just be done once. Every deck pilots, it just all depends on the player and the way it is used. I don't see how do heroes autopilot much if you can set up a lot of things with them, just like in wind ups and six sams.

Because every move you make is blatantly obvious for both decks?

There isn't a deck out there that offers plays which aren't obvious after a certain amount of time is spent playing it.

Sasori wrote:

There isn't a deck out there that offers plays which aren't obvious after a certain amount of time is spent playing it.

You are not surprised when the opponent summons Alius ?!?... YOU LIE SASO!!!

Ya only that, cause you know heroes are out of this world. Too difficult to master so when I see someone using them I just surrender, why waste my time dueling a player of such degree.

Sasori wrote:

Ya only that, cause you know heroes are out of this world. Too difficult to master so when I see someone using them I just surrender, why waste my time dueling a player of such degree.

WU doesn't give you any options outside of which loop to do, and that's defensive or offensive specific. Some decks you actually do have to make choices as to what to do, whereas with WUs you always know that your goal is to just spam monsters. There is no decision making involved.

Danica, the Great wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Ya only that, cause you know heroes are out of this world. Too difficult to master so when I see someone using them I just surrender, why waste my time dueling a player of such degree.

WU doesn't give you any options outside of which loop to do, and that's defensive or offensive specific. Some decks you actually do have to make choices as to what to do, whereas with WUs you always know that your goal is to just spam monsters. There is no decision making involved.

Why do you people still say "loop"? Builds with Hunter are bad, you don't call the "new" combos - loop, since it's not a loop, you don't spam rats and summon monsters and etc.

L.Lawliet wrote:

Danica, the Great wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Ya only that, cause you know heroes are out of this world. Too difficult to master so when I see someone using them I just surrender, why waste my time dueling a player of such degree.

WU doesn't give you any options outside of which loop to do, and that's defensive or offensive specific. Some decks you actually do have to make choices as to what to do, whereas with WUs you always know that your goal is to just spam monsters. There is no decision making involved.

Why do you people still say "loop"? Builds with Hunter are bad, you don't call the "new" combos - loop, since it's not a loop, you don't spam rats and summon monsters and etc.

Yes, we realize that it's not technically a loop. It's a habit, not that it changes the fact that they don't take any more or less skill than HEROs, neither of which require much skill to operate initially or build.

Last edited by Danica, the Great on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total

Danica, the Great wrote:

L.Lawliet wrote:

Danica, the Great wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Ya only that, cause you know heroes are out of this world. Too difficult to master so when I see someone using them I just surrender, why waste my time dueling a player of such degree.

WU doesn't give you any options outside of which loop to do, and that's defensive or offensive specific. Some decks you actually do have to make choices as to what to do, whereas with WUs you always know that your goal is to just spam monsters. There is no decision making involved.

Why do you people still say "loop"? Builds with Hunter are bad, you don't call the "new" combos - loop, since it's not a loop, you don't spam rats and summon monsters and etc.

Yes, we realize that it's not technically a loop. It's a habit, not that it changes the fact that they don't take any more or less skill than HEROs, neither of which don't require much skill to operate initially or build.

Build - no, most builds are the same for both decks with little the difference. The piloting of the deck (WU) is not as easy as playing 1 card - Miracle, or Summoning Alius when you have Spark and use the spark to destroy a card...
In WU you have more than the OTKs said before. It's a well known fact that Wind-ups are the hardest deck to pilot to it's best performance. Please stop arguing with me or I won't play nice anymore.

L.Lawliet wrote:

Danica, the Great wrote:

L.Lawliet wrote:

Danica, the Great wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Ya only that, cause you know heroes are out of this world. Too difficult to master so when I see someone using them I just surrender, why waste my time dueling a player of such degree.

WU doesn't give you any options outside of which loop to do, and that's defensive or offensive specific. Some decks you actually do have to make choices as to what to do, whereas with WUs you always know that your goal is to just spam monsters. There is no decision making involved.

Why do you people still say "loop"? Builds with Hunter are bad, you don't call the "new" combos - loop, since it's not a loop, you don't spam rats and summon monsters and etc.

Yes, we realize that it's not technically a loop. It's a habit, not that it changes the fact that they don't take any more or less skill than HEROs, neither of which don't require much skill to operate initially or build.

Build - no, most builds are the same for both decks with little the difference. The piloting of the deck (WU) is not as easy as playing 1 card - Miracle, or Summoning Alius when you have Spark and use the spark to destroy a card...
In WU you have more than the OTKs said before. It's a well known fact that Wind-ups are the hardest deck to pilot to it's best performance. Please stop arguing with me or I won't play nice anymore.

So I shouldn't argue with you because I have a conflicting opinion? How egotistical of you. WU is easy to play, and so far the poll is showing that the majority of people agree with that statement.

PFFFFT
Heroes are far from autopilot.

Autopilot implies that the deck could practically run itself.
Heroes are so varied most of the time, and are only predictable to a mild extent.

You summon Stratos? Okay, you can search up ANY HERO in the entire deck.
ANY.
HERO.
That doesn't mean it's limited to "Elemental HERO Neos Alius".

Only loop with Heroes I'VE ever heard of are Shining-relatedlike loops (which Shining misses timing painfully easy, so that's a hard theory to prove anyway), and the spamming of Bubbleman.
Sure the deck is heavily used, but it doesn't mean it's autopilot.


I believe Wind-ups are autopilot.
Wind-ups usually have one definitive loop that they spam to perform their basic moves. This loop is powerful, but it is limitedly varied.
You can only search up a handful of monsters, and more likely than not you're going to search up the monster that is essential to continuing the loop.

Proof?
You use Prohibition, call Magician, they can't execute that portion of the combo.
Call Shark. They'll have an extremely difficult time spamming.

You use Prohibition, call Bubbleman.
Heroes can still perform very fluently.
Call Stratos. Heroes still perform VERY fluently.
Call Miracle Fusion. Heroes still spam powerful monsters.

IJS: Heroes are much more varied and unpredictable than Wind-ups.

Heroes CAN be autopilot to a limited extent, but I think that's more-so limited to Bubble Beat. Just my opinion though.
I DEFINITELY agree with previous poster than Heroes have more habits than loops.

However, I'm inclined to say, despite the FORCED increase in variability in WUs, that WUs loop more than use habits.
Use Factory, get Shark, summon Wind-up or something, summon Shark, use Magician and whatnot, spam, spam spam, etc.
I'm not entirely familiar with the loop, but I've seen it enough to be agitated by it. And to see that Wind-ups aren't dependent on painfully long hand-loop anymore.

I will admit though, the looping of WUs has been decreased due to the limiting of Zenmaity.

If you call Alius with Prohibition you win. Heroes lose. And Stratos searches only Bubble or Alius, if you can name another G-Hero you'll search I have no further need to speak with you.
Wind-up doesn't have any loops. Wind-up has combos - some take Magicians some take Sharks, some Rabbits and some Rats.
Here are all the plays G-Heroes does:
1. Summon Alius
2. Summon Stratos, search Alius or Bubbleman
3. Set all cards special summon Bubbleman
4. Play Spark on alius when needed, from hand or set
5. Play Hero Blast return Alius to hand
6. Play Miracle from hand or set
7. Play monster reborn/call of the haunted on Stratos to search bubble for "fast" plays or search Alius
8. XYZ 2 monster into Exalibur - detach 2, add boost to 4000
9. XYZ 2 monsters into Blade Armor Ninja - detach Stratos, if Alius is in grave, if not detach what you feel like ~doesn't matter
10. Combo with step 8 or 9 with Miracle after you detach

#So hard to master, I know right...

What do you know, I can't post all the combos Wind-up does - will need far too much time :/
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@Danica look love, it's clear to me that you know nothing about Wind-ups. I'm not saying that you're super bad at this game or anything like that, I'm stating that you are bad with the deck (WU), you can be good with any other deck, there is no way for me to know that... at least from what I'm seeing, it looks like you haven't played with it in the new format to understand how many options you always have. Maybe the lack of good opponents is the problem here, it doesn't really look like people here know what they are talking about. If you read articles related to this, you'll see that it's an opinion that's well known - Wind-up, the best deck of the format, is in fact the hardest to pilot to it's fullest, at this moment of the format. After all, there is a reason why people are misplaying with it so badly... and it's not only cause they are stupid, it's cause it's not as easy as other decks out there. All the big talk you said about the 2 decks is cute, mhm mhm... but it's not correct. The people that voted Wind-up for the bigger "auto drive" deck, all of them in fact can't play with it, and lose against it on the daily basic. That's the truth really...