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(Article) TCG+OCG=NOCG

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Skitoritto
Jue Viole Grace
Angry Dueling Nerd
Linda-Senpai
UniqueHope
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TCG+OCG=NOCG

Recently, you've probably been comparing the OCG banlist and the TCG banlist, and seeing severe differences. If you want to compare the two throughout this article, then here are links to both:
Links :


Now, since some time in 2013, we've had different lists. But before that, people were quite happy to play a "TCG/OCG" format for their games, which just incorporated OCG cards into standard TCG gameplay. Because people were used to this, some people continued after the banlists started to be different, and used OCG cards in a TCG banlist. However, this makes no sense when looked at in detail.

First of all, if you consider the period of time in which a meta deck is able to dominate its "cycle", then you might note that the cycles are usually similar in length. OCG cards get banned before TCG cards as they get them first, and this balances out the length of the cycles in TCG and OCG despite OCG having the cards to use months before TCG. The proof of that would be artifacts; they've already been hit slightly in OCG, but they have other potential for meta decks coming through. So, the cycles are all similar lengths. This is clearly something intended by Konami in keeping the game relatively balanced, to avoid having too many powerful decks at once. However, using both the TCG and OCG formats simultaneously can cause an overlap in these cycles. When there are too many powerful decks in a format, it would become impossible to win a tournament without using one of them, as all decks have good and bad matchups. With a large number of decks that are more powerful than normal, if your deck had a bad matchup against one of them then it would be incredibly difficult to win. It would be impossible to play an anti-meta deck because there would simply be too much meta. In that sense, TCG+OCG gives people a very limited option of what decks to play competitively, contrary to the opinion that it gives more choice.

Those banlists also do very different things. As a result, they have different cards on them. It's all very simple when you look at it and see very clear differences. The OCG banlist has Heavy Storm limited and Honest semi-limited. If you put another copy of Honest into TCG, Bujins would be even more of a nightmare. But Bujins (Or Lightsworn, or any other LIGHT deck) evidently aren't considered such a major problem in OCG, and so they can semi-limit Honest. Heavy storm makes setting a lot of backrow far more dangerous, and just the possibility of your opponent having it makes you far more cautious. OCG games will be heavily OTK orientated, whereas TCG games will be longer. Introducing many OTK decks into the TCG format would essentially destroy that part of the game, and would basically just involve playing OCG on an outdated/different banlist. Something like that really should not be playable at all, especially not in tournaments. What I'm saying is that comparing TCG to OCG is like comparing these two people from Pokemon Fire Red. It's a big difference.

Let's call this guy 'OCG' :

and this one can be 'TCG' :




Another valid point to consider is that it is physically impossible. In the real world, there are no "TCG+OCG tournaments". All OCG tournaments ban TCG-only cards, and all TCG tournaments ban OCG cards altogether. The reason for that is that the games are seperate. If you cannot play the cards together in real life competitive play, then it would make no sense to allow TCG+OCG in tournaments online. Otherwise, you begin to stop viewing online tournaments as "competitive", as the game becomes severely unbalanced.

My next question is a commonly asked one for different subjects; where do we draw the line? Rescue Rabbit is unlimited in OCG, but it's limited in TCG. Since you're playing cards that are completely unable to be played in TCG format, why not play cards in the same numbers as OCG? Comparitively, the difference between unlimited and limited is smaller than that between unlimited and forbidden, so it should logically be playable in a format where you mash the two together. Heck, why don't you just play OCG? That's pretty much the point of this; TCG+OCG is pointless as a potential format, as the only reason it could be seen as better than either TCG or OCG is that it has lots of very powerful decks that would completely crush anyone using a TCG deck into the ground. OCG-only tournaments are very much acceptable for anyone who wants to use an OCG deck, but if you were to mix the two formats, then everything would literally become a slightly different OCG in the later rounds of a tournament. Cards are banned at different times because the two formats at any one time are very dramatically different. A card is unbanned when it won't have any massive impact on the meta, and a card is banned when it has had too much of an impact. Artifact Moralltech is already limited in OCG because they got Artifacts before TCG, and TCG will probably follow suite on the next banlist. Allowing OCG cards would give them even more time to have an impact on the meta, essentially extending their cycle period, which would give an even longer time for people to get fed up of seeing the same deck everywhere.

Finally, my most important point, already raised earlier in the article: "Why don't you just play OCG?" If you want to play OCG cards, then you can play in the OCG format, where it all actually makes sense. The TCG banlist is not geared to accept all of the OCG cards, especially not if they are banned first. Many years ago, in 2003, we had the first time when the OCG banlist was different to TCG. Sixth Sense was forbidden the second it hit OCG, but did not exist in TCG meaning it was not banned. When it came out in TCG, it wasn't banned. People were using it. A lot. This kind of thing is what TCG+OCG does; it allows cards that should not be allowed at the present time to be played unlimited, which is going to have an insane effect if it's allowed in competitive play.

Essentially, the way we duel online through mediums such as Dueling Network allows us to play a TCG+OCG deck. However, that would not make sense in a tournament, whether real life or online. In many ways, including OCG cards in a TCG format can completely destroy the balance in the game, and tournaments become unplayable. In a competitive event, you will never see "TCG+OCG" in the rules, and that is more than justified. In summary, it is simply impossible, and my title is quite clear with making this point; mixing OCG with TCG does not give you a playable card game.

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So, basically you don't like the way DN is set up? 

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UniqueHope wrote:
So, basically you don't like the way DN is set up? 


Basically, it's physically impossible and makes competitive play impossible. It is not possible.

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Certainly could have shortened that article, but well.. sure, DN probably has a mail or sth you can send letters to, tell them to separate the ocg and tcg cards, it's just simple code

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The problem is people here complaining that tournaments are TCG only or whatever, and not TCG+OCG. This is a response to that.

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I think some of them just want ocg, not necessarily tcg+ocg

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TCG+OCG has nothing to do with banlists, it's just tcg cards+ocg cards under TCG banlist. Who the hell cares if its not possible irl? This is ONLINE Dueling and the default duel system here is Dueling Network and this is the way DN is setup. It is not by any means unbalanced. It's not like OCG cards will be OCG forever, and it's not like even if they are limited or whatever in OCG that the OCG banlist will carry over to TCG when they are released in TCG.

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well spoken *applauds*

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Learn to read before you try and make a rebuttal. Just a hint.

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I'll go ahead and upvote this.

The main reason why this is of importance is that Dueling Network was made to simulate real life gameplay, providing a "table to play to play the game on" and a deck to use.
Surely, I have no problem with using OCG-exclusive cards together with TCG-exclusive ones as long as it is not a competitive game. I do not have anything against the format in itself, it's just that it becomes absolutely unacceptable when simulating real life play. Overall, KONAMI has released two different ban lists on purpose, and that is to prevent just this format, and in tournaments (especially World Championships), all cards allowed are explicitly stated (usually everything released in the OCG up to the most recent Extra Pack or something, I'm not entirely sure).
As representatives of KONAMI like, for example, me and Jin Kazama are (both of us are officially registered judges), it's only natural that we would follow these rules in every major tournament we are hosting. In small tournaments or BA, do whatever you wish. But be sure to follow the rules and don't complain about a rule that has been setup by KONAMI.

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Well explained JJH,sadly some people don't have pair of eyes to read this and understand it.
I hope DA makes everything TCG legal,as really OCG+TCG's an un-balanced format.
Example for this is H.A.T,that deck wasn't played in the OCG,why?Because OCG has Nebra Disk,whom's going to be Liminted when it does come to TCG,just because of Artifacts being alive here.Now since Chronofacts pretty much play by protecting an 2600 monster waiting for your opponent waste recourses on getting it out (OCG has Heavy,they given no f**k about the Nebra babysit game).When your opponent gets rid of your field by then you pretty much have that degenerated OTK set-up and game is over.I'm not saying deck is unfair or something,I'm just saying that strategy can't be hard countered in TCG because of the banlist.And we all know that rule "Every deck can be hard countered"~KONAMI.

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In my opinion separating the game to both TCG and OCG is one of KONAMI's miscalculations - unlike what Jjh stated. You see, they seek not to give too many powerful cards in one format for there will be little to do against meta decks, but they could have avoided that by not making overpowered cards to begin with, they could have balanced the game by making a logical effects and actually give some of those cards a weakness that someone could work around. But, instead, they decided to make two different Ban lists and separate some of the strong cards so they cannot be used together in the same format, but in my opinion that's wrong as well, they're limiting people's potential to create decks using all of the cards this game his to offer just so that they could make overpowered cards that everyone will be willing to buy because otherwise winning a duel would be near the impossible.

As Duel Academy we cannot have these TCG+OCG events for they doesn't provide a learning experience for the participants of these events nor they give valuable lessons that one could possibly use in real life experience. KONAMI is the party that takes care of making the rules, we're just here to make sure we follow them. Doesn't really matter If some aren't fund of these rules, there is absolutely nothing you could do about it. Just sit back and enjoy the game.

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Why shouldn't everyone play in same format?

I think that this thing about TCG+OCG isn't a big deal...
As much as I know its only played online and I wouldn't describe it as unbalanced...

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Galaksii wrote:
Why shouldn't everyone play in same format?

I think that this thing about TCG+OCG isn't a big deal...
As much as I know its only played online and I wouldn't describe it as unbalanced...

So it's okay to play 3 Chaos End Dragon in this TCG format 3 Painful Choice and 3 Giant Turnade?
KONAMI makes broken cards,because this is a TCG,TCG's must have broken cards.Because that's what makes them fun.

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Let's have a tiny confession thread in here, Gala you didn't actually read the article, did you?

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Nothing like a controversial article to breathe activity back into this section.

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It's all you.

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UniqueHope wrote:
Let's have a tiny confession thread in here, Gala you didn't actually read the article, did you?


I read a little bit... Sad

And Skitt, OCG is getting most of the Broken Cards now...
-Can you please stop quoting me and acting smart?

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How's it okay to use those "Broken cards" in TCG then?

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Hidalgo™ wrote:
How's it okay to use those "Broken cards" in TCG then?


You think there weren't Broken Cards in TCG?
TCG had even BROKEN Formats, and we have that situation now, somewhat...

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Hidalgo™ wrote:
How's it okay to use those "Broken cards" in TCG then?

Hows TCG an even remotely decent format? You like setting bottomless, 2 nightmare, Sanctum, and Wiretap in a format with no heavy storm? You like opening with Yamato 96% of the time and setting on it all fucking game to win? You like gaydolche spin two cards and return two cards to hand ridiclous shit? Why the hell are you guys acting like TCG is a perfect paradise? That TCG shit is lame as fuck, and all the FUN stuff is OCG. Nebra Disk and Fork? OCG. Heraldic field and Plain Coat? OCG. Batteryman 9V? OCG. Silent Angler? OCG. Mask Change Second? OCG. Other fun stuff? OCG. The only fun stuff in TCG is extremely unviable. Excuse me for liking to have fun when I play this game.

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How about leaving personal opinions out of the discussion...

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sorry i didnt know the academy gains from making less people compete.

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Or how about playing OCG?you like OCG cards?Then play them with OCG banlist...
Nice article by the way...too bad lots of people didn't even read it...

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I read it lol, but Faervel is right if you like OCG cards, then play by its banlist, if not then play TCG banists, besides, in tournaments they go by OCG anyway

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Angry Dueling Nerd wrote:
I read it lol, but Faervel is right if you like OCG cards, then play by its banlist, if not then play TCG banists, besides, in tournaments they go by OCG anyway


That's what the article was saying e_e

Also, in tournaments, they go by OCG in Japan, and TCG everywhere else.

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faervel wrote:
Or how about playing OCG?you like OCG cards?Then play them with OCG banlist...
Nice article by the way...too bad lots of people didn't even read it...

#1: OCG banlist  isnt on DN

#2: nobody actively follows OCG banlist and shit
#3: who the fuck would I play against?
#4: why go through all that trouble when I can just play TCG+OCG?


If DA wants to keep tournaments dead as fuck, fine by me I don't have anything more to win anyway.

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#1: then use something else
#2: serious overstatement
#3: those exact people
#4: cause tbh you can't


The tournaments have 20+ people in them, go rant somewhere else that someone took your toy from you..

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UniqueHope wrote:
#1: then use something else
#2: serious overstatement
#3: those exact people
#4: cause tbh you can't


The tournaments have 20+ people in them, go rant somewhere else that someone took your toy from you..

I'm not ranting I'm saying I am not going to play TCG only or OCG because OCG isn't on DN, nobody follows OCG, nobody plays OCG only, TCG+OCG is the only good format

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My statement still stands...
And if you really like TCG+OCG so much and can't manage any other dueling platforms then go search just those tourneys and im sure you'll find what you want, just don't whine on DA for having it's ruleset.

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