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Confusing victory condition question

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LòKóS
Jue Viole Grace
HyawehHoshikawa
Nekofjung
Zeox
Lord of Blue-Eyes
10 posters

descriptionConfusing victory condition question EmptyConfusing victory condition question

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A player has 4 exodia pieces in hand, and 2 cards left in his deck. It's his draw phase so he draws. It's not his final exodia piece, so he activates Hand Destruction, discarding 2 to draw his last card. It's the final piece of exodia!
So he has exodia in his hand now and declares automatic victory right? Seems simple enough.
What I'm confused about is, shouldn't he be forced to draw again since Hand Destruction makes u draw 2? He has no cards left in deck, so doesn't that mean he loses by deckout?
So what happens if you deckout with exodia in hand?
Same situation applies to what would happen if you activated Hope for Escape with only 1000 Life Points left and you draw exodia?
Do you win because you have Exodia, or do you lose because you've decked out or lost all your Life Points?

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You can not activate hand destruction if
A) You or Your opponent will not be able to draw 2 cards
B) You or your opponent will not be able to discard 2 cards

so in your scenario, because you only have 1 card left, you could not of activated hand destruction in the first place.

as for the 2nd scenario, don't even think you can use a card that has an LP cost if it would make you lose the duel. Even if you can, don't xD. technically you pay the cost first, and thus gets you to 0 LP before you even draw, so you would lose at that point. But again, I don't think you are even allowed to do that.

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Actually, you are allowed to kill yourself by burning yourself to death with your own card effect ... it is very highly not recommended ... but you can do it.

In general, I'll add this: If you get Exodia via a card effect, you have to wait until the effect is done resolving before you can declare victory. If you die before that, or if you lose a piece of Exodia before that happens, you don't get a victory. Another example would be activating Dark World Dealings with 4 pieces in-hand and then drawing the 5th piece. The effect of Dark World Dealings isn't resolved until after a card is discarded, so even though at one point you have all 5 pieces in-hand, you are in the middle of resolving an effect and will therefore have to discard one of your pieces.

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Well, plac, you need to re-read the rulebook.



Winning Condition
• Reduce your opponent’s Life Points to 0.
• Your opponent is unable to draw a card when they are
supposed to draw.
• Win with a card’s special effect.

~Rulebook V8, page 26



I could probably wrong in this, but last time I heard, in TCG, having exactly 1000 life point = you can't pay 1000 life point, while in OCG you can do it and lose.

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Clearing all of this...

If you attempt to activate a card effect whilst being unable to fulfil the effect, it is considered an illegal activation and you will have to rewind the game state until you're back at the starting point.
So, in this example, Player A cannot draw 2 more cards, even if it would cause him to win with Exodia.
About decking out, no optional effects that would cause a Player to run out of deck cards, like Pot of Greed, Hand-/Card Destruction, and so on. Mandatory Effects, however, still have to activate hence their nature of being mandatory.
Example for this would be Player A Synchro Summoning a Synchro Monster while Player A already controls T.G. Hyper Librarian with no cards in his/her deck: T.G. Hyper Librarian is a mandatory effect, so it will attempt to draw a card in all circumstances, even if Player A cannot draw anymore, causing Player A to lose, against what Placido said above.
Othet example for such a mandatory effect that would cause deck out is Morphing Jar; all FLIP Effects are mandatory effects, Morphing Jar's effect resolves in any circumstance and, if either Player A or Player B has under 5 cards in his/her deck, the respective Player will lose.
Note that here a tie is possible, if both Players have under 5 cards in their decks.

To paying costs...
Life Point costs are generally, in the TCG, not able to be paid if the amount is equal to or higher than your current Life Points, even if paying those Life Points would cause something to happen which would either have you gain Life Points (we will just assume that there is a card effect which will immediately have you gain Life Points after paying them) or would cause your opponent to lose (we will just assume that there is a card effect which will immediately cause damage to your opponent; Fire Princess cannot be this example due to it going on chain).
In the OCG, however, you are able to pay Life Point Costs which equal your Life Points (you are still not able to pay costs higher than your Life Points).
Examples would be activating and successfully resolving Solemn Warning while only having 2000 Life Points; summoning a Synchro Monster with Wicked Rebirth while having only 800 Life Points (I will mention this later on); paying 800 Life Points to summon any monster from your graveyard with Premature Burial; and so on.
However, as mentioned above, we are able to assume that doing so will still cause the current chain in which the Life Point Costs were paid to activate a card effect to resolve properly, means that if, only if, a Player activates Master Cure - Dian Keto and then chains Wicked Rebirth while only having 800 Life Points, after resolving the chain properly, that Player will then gain 1000 Life Points and does not lose the duel.
This, however, is an assumption based on the Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's anime where indeed a Player paid for Wicked Rebirth while having only 800 Life Points left. The monster still was summoned and passed on to the next Player (assume the duel was a Turbo Duel).
I do not guarantee that what I said about the resolving chain link with Dian Keto and Wicked Rebirth to be true since I never had to deal with such situation, but I can still assume it to be as written above.

Anything else you need?

descriptionConfusing victory condition question EmptyRe: Confusing victory condition question

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So do you deck out durig your draw phase or when you just plain cannot draw?

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Deck out is when ever you can't draw card from your deck in Draw Phase or by card effect which makes you draw cards.

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Cannot draw anymore, and then lose.

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Nekofjung wrote:
Actually, you are allowed to kill yourself by burning yourself to death with your own card effect ... it is very highly not recommended ... but you can do it.


This is not entirely true..

Complicated ruling on Card Destruction <This is in Japanese!

I've bookmarked this one because it is usefull in some situations.

Say that you have 3 Cards in hand (incl. Card Destruction) and you have only 1 card left in your deck.
Basically, the Japanese link above says that you cannot activate Card Destruction in this case or in any case where the activation of Card Destruction results in decking yourself out.
However, even thought Card Destruction's effect states that each player draws an equal amount of Cards that were discarded, and we all know that cards cannot be activated if their effects cannot properly resolve, the Ruling on Card Destruction states that it can in fact be activate to make your opponent deck-out.

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Cards need to resolve for you activate any other "effects", or like in your case - conditions.

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I'm guessing this has been answered, necro-ing hardcore. but Locked.

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