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(Article) TCG+OCG=NOCG

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Skitoritto
Jue Viole Grace
Angry Dueling Nerd
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UniqueHope
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First topic message reminder :


TCG+OCG=NOCG

Recently, you've probably been comparing the OCG banlist and the TCG banlist, and seeing severe differences. If you want to compare the two throughout this article, then here are links to both:
Links :


Now, since some time in 2013, we've had different lists. But before that, people were quite happy to play a "TCG/OCG" format for their games, which just incorporated OCG cards into standard TCG gameplay. Because people were used to this, some people continued after the banlists started to be different, and used OCG cards in a TCG banlist. However, this makes no sense when looked at in detail.

First of all, if you consider the period of time in which a meta deck is able to dominate its "cycle", then you might note that the cycles are usually similar in length. OCG cards get banned before TCG cards as they get them first, and this balances out the length of the cycles in TCG and OCG despite OCG having the cards to use months before TCG. The proof of that would be artifacts; they've already been hit slightly in OCG, but they have other potential for meta decks coming through. So, the cycles are all similar lengths. This is clearly something intended by Konami in keeping the game relatively balanced, to avoid having too many powerful decks at once. However, using both the TCG and OCG formats simultaneously can cause an overlap in these cycles. When there are too many powerful decks in a format, it would become impossible to win a tournament without using one of them, as all decks have good and bad matchups. With a large number of decks that are more powerful than normal, if your deck had a bad matchup against one of them then it would be incredibly difficult to win. It would be impossible to play an anti-meta deck because there would simply be too much meta. In that sense, TCG+OCG gives people a very limited option of what decks to play competitively, contrary to the opinion that it gives more choice.

Those banlists also do very different things. As a result, they have different cards on them. It's all very simple when you look at it and see very clear differences. The OCG banlist has Heavy Storm limited and Honest semi-limited. If you put another copy of Honest into TCG, Bujins would be even more of a nightmare. But Bujins (Or Lightsworn, or any other LIGHT deck) evidently aren't considered such a major problem in OCG, and so they can semi-limit Honest. Heavy storm makes setting a lot of backrow far more dangerous, and just the possibility of your opponent having it makes you far more cautious. OCG games will be heavily OTK orientated, whereas TCG games will be longer. Introducing many OTK decks into the TCG format would essentially destroy that part of the game, and would basically just involve playing OCG on an outdated/different banlist. Something like that really should not be playable at all, especially not in tournaments. What I'm saying is that comparing TCG to OCG is like comparing these two people from Pokemon Fire Red. It's a big difference.

Let's call this guy 'OCG' :

and this one can be 'TCG' :




Another valid point to consider is that it is physically impossible. In the real world, there are no "TCG+OCG tournaments". All OCG tournaments ban TCG-only cards, and all TCG tournaments ban OCG cards altogether. The reason for that is that the games are seperate. If you cannot play the cards together in real life competitive play, then it would make no sense to allow TCG+OCG in tournaments online. Otherwise, you begin to stop viewing online tournaments as "competitive", as the game becomes severely unbalanced.

My next question is a commonly asked one for different subjects; where do we draw the line? Rescue Rabbit is unlimited in OCG, but it's limited in TCG. Since you're playing cards that are completely unable to be played in TCG format, why not play cards in the same numbers as OCG? Comparitively, the difference between unlimited and limited is smaller than that between unlimited and forbidden, so it should logically be playable in a format where you mash the two together. Heck, why don't you just play OCG? That's pretty much the point of this; TCG+OCG is pointless as a potential format, as the only reason it could be seen as better than either TCG or OCG is that it has lots of very powerful decks that would completely crush anyone using a TCG deck into the ground. OCG-only tournaments are very much acceptable for anyone who wants to use an OCG deck, but if you were to mix the two formats, then everything would literally become a slightly different OCG in the later rounds of a tournament. Cards are banned at different times because the two formats at any one time are very dramatically different. A card is unbanned when it won't have any massive impact on the meta, and a card is banned when it has had too much of an impact. Artifact Moralltech is already limited in OCG because they got Artifacts before TCG, and TCG will probably follow suite on the next banlist. Allowing OCG cards would give them even more time to have an impact on the meta, essentially extending their cycle period, which would give an even longer time for people to get fed up of seeing the same deck everywhere.

Finally, my most important point, already raised earlier in the article: "Why don't you just play OCG?" If you want to play OCG cards, then you can play in the OCG format, where it all actually makes sense. The TCG banlist is not geared to accept all of the OCG cards, especially not if they are banned first. Many years ago, in 2003, we had the first time when the OCG banlist was different to TCG. Sixth Sense was forbidden the second it hit OCG, but did not exist in TCG meaning it was not banned. When it came out in TCG, it wasn't banned. People were using it. A lot. This kind of thing is what TCG+OCG does; it allows cards that should not be allowed at the present time to be played unlimited, which is going to have an insane effect if it's allowed in competitive play.

Essentially, the way we duel online through mediums such as Dueling Network allows us to play a TCG+OCG deck. However, that would not make sense in a tournament, whether real life or online. In many ways, including OCG cards in a TCG format can completely destroy the balance in the game, and tournaments become unplayable. In a competitive event, you will never see "TCG+OCG" in the rules, and that is more than justified. In summary, it is simply impossible, and my title is quite clear with making this point; mixing OCG with TCG does not give you a playable card game.

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UniqueHope wrote:
My statement still stands...
And if you really like TCG+OCG so much and can't manage any other dueling platforms then go search just those tourneys and im sure you'll find what you want, just don't whine on DA for having it's ruleset.

Do you have a problem with somebody stating their opinion if its not a psoitive opinion?

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N.. honestly, I don't care, people do play ocg and you can play in whichever format you like with dn randoms, that's all there is..

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Rika Furude wrote:
UniqueHope wrote:
My statement still stands...
And if you really like TCG+OCG so much and can't manage any other dueling platforms then go search just those tourneys and im sure you'll find what you want, just don't whine on DA for having it's ruleset.

Do you have a problem with somebody stating their opinion if its not a psoitive opinion?

Yes! Yes! I can't THIS any fucking harder. That seems to be a huge thing. Disagree with something or don't like something and want to have an opinion? Suddenly you're being an asshole or whiny. It's a bit disheartening, actually.

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I'm playing OCG daily on DN,and I'm positive no one's going to cheat on you by playing something that's not on the banlist,I'm soon going to make a DNF topic that lists all of the OCG players,so that BLS might get convinced to add it to DN.As by his words "DN does not have OCG because there aren't enough people we want to play it".People like me and Chaos Swarm are those who want to change that.So,whoever wants to play OCG can contact me on DA/DN about OCG related info.

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Hidalgo™ wrote:
I'm playing OCG daily on DN,and I'm positive no one's going to cheat on you by playing something that's not on the banlist,I'm soon going to make a DNF topic that lists all of the OCG players,so that BLS might get convinced to add it to DN.As by his words "DN does not have OCG because there aren't enough people we want to play it".People like me and Chaos Swarm are those who want to change that.So,whoever wants to play OCG can contact me on DA/DN about OCG related info.


This was already sugested and refused...
We had a petition but nobody didn't really cared...

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Rika Furude wrote:
UniqueHope wrote:
My statement still stands...
And if you really like TCG+OCG so much and can't manage any other dueling platforms then go search just those tourneys and im sure you'll find what you want, just don't whine on DA for having it's ruleset.

Do you have a problem with somebody stating their opinion if its not a psoitive opinion?


There seems to be a misconception, I am fine with you having your own opinion, but you are not entitled one if your opinion disregards others' opinions or tries to incite a non-productive discussion, like you do right now.
Don't get me wrong, you are allowed to disagree with others, this is the core principle of a healthy discussion, but you are completely disregarding exactly those people who play by the OCG List, who care about TCG+OCG not being allowed, who care about following KONAMI's rules.

Long story short, this is your last verbal warning I give you about this. Continue behaving in such a derogatory way and diminish DA's value and you will be gone.

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As irate may have been a bit vague as to what "inciting a non-productive discussion" is, I think it would make sense to clarify it.

My understanding of this is the difference between a discussion and an argument. Discussion and debate is fine, as long as you remain open to the other's points. Comparitively, it becomes an argument where, after a point has been raised that proves a previous point as false, somebody completely disregards that point and ignores it, before raising the previous point again. This solves no purpose in a discussion as people can already read the first, and what the first person is essentially doing is trying to get people to read their point again and again even though there is someone else who has disproved it. This is the online equivalent of shouting so that noone else can be heard making new points, which is not how you win a formal debate or make points in a civilised discussion.

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