Machina Gadget.

Not sure if 1 Night Beam is good.
https://i.imgur.com/klxlTF3.png

- 1 of each gadget
- 3 double summon
- beam
- 2 mirror

+ 1 fortress
+ 2 gear frame
+ 2 D prison
+ 2 Breakthrough Skill

Breakthrough skill is meh. Try Iron Call though.

Frisky Badger wrote:

Breakthrough skill is meh. Try Iron Call though.

Breakthrough Skill is actually a good card. Breakthrough works like veiler, in that it follows the monster. I.e it stops Rescue Rabit and the like and on your turn if its in the grave you can banish it from grave to get around a pesky Tking. This gives it advantages over both Fiendish and Veiler. Breakthrough, when you set it, can be used anytime, where as Veiler can only be used during your opponents MP. And unlike Fiendish it stops the pesky effects of Tking, Rescue rabbit, and the like. Ofc Veiler and Fiendish have their own advantages to, but say Breakthrough is meh is like saying Fiendish and Veiler are meh.

Hmm -2 Call -1 Warning (banlist e.e) +1 Book of Moon +1 Lance +1 Machina Cannon. Iron Call is bad in the deck. Side 3 Gozen and 3 Soul Drain.

He's obv using an OCG build so why not use Iron Call? It's too good.

Frisky Badger wrote:

He's obv using an OCG build so why not use Iron Call? It's too good.

Because it negate's their effects not allowing the gadgets to search each other out when summoned by it.

Yoshiya Joshua Kiryu wrote:

Frisky Badger wrote:

He's obv using an OCG build so why not use Iron Call? It's too good.

Because it negate's their effects not allowing the gadgets to search each other out when summoned by it.

It sets up for Xyz after you've exhausted your gadget summons for that turn.

Frisky Badger wrote:

He's obv using an OCG build so why not use Iron Call? It's too good.

Since they don't get their effects, I would use Call of the Haunted over it also because it can easily +1 when it is targeted by MST. Downside is it's yea easily killed and also slower. Still prefer it since Gadget effects are too good and Veilers and s**t are always runing around somewhere.

Wow. My topic suddenly became a debate area ._.

1. 2 of each gadget.
2. You have to set breakthrough skill so it sucks.
3. No need for double summons
4. where is limiter removal?
5. needs machina cannon.
6. needs 3 gear frame and 3 fortress
7. 1 warning, banlist.
8. No CoTH, you don't want 2 gadgets in hand in general.
9. tech i geartown, malefic cyber end, and Ancient Gear Gadgiltron Dragon by taking out 1 MST, 1 Heavy, 2 CoTH, Heavy(you run to many traps), 1 MST, and a night beam. You don't need much spell/trap removal because you have so many searchers. Oh no my opponent torrentialed my red gadget... lemme go get another.

overall fixes:
- 1 of each gadget
- 3 double summon
- 2 CoTH
- 1 Heavy Storm
- 1 MST
- 1 Solemn Warning

+ 1 gearframe
+ 2 fortress
+ 1 cannon
+ 3 geartown
+ 2 ancient gear gadgiltron dragon
+ 1 Cyber end malefic dragon
+ 1 limiter removal
+ 2 skill drain

(you should have 42 cards instead of 40 because that increases the chances of only drawing one of the six gadgets.)

∫pi wrote:

2. You have to set breakthrough skill so it sucks.

You have to set Fiendish Chain. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set Solemn Warning. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set Solemn Judgment. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set Comp Device. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set BTH. Does that make it bad? No.

Fail logic is fail.

More to the point, you have to set Breakthrough where as you do not have to set veiler. This makes Veiler better. Furthermore, veiler is not suceptible to MST/night Beam/ decree/ Trap Stun.

It was a comparative logic. If there were a hand trap with the same ability as any of the solemn brigade I would run it over said brigade.

Yoshiya Joshua Kiryu wrote:

∫pi wrote:

2. You have to set breakthrough skill so it sucks.

You have to set Fiendish Chain. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set Solemn Warning. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set Solemn Judgment. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set Comp Device. Does that make it bad? No.
You have to set BTH. Does that make it bad? No.

Fail logic is fail.

Fail Comparison is fail. If there were a hand trap for those cards, they would be obsolete. I.E. a grandmole which activates by discarding itself... that would be the comparison with CED. For Judgement, it would be a Laggia which has to be sent from hand to grave to activate it's effect.

Bad may not be a good term, worse would be. However, why run the second best instead of the best? Why run breakthrough over veiler? As for the fact that breakthrough allows you to negate effects on your turn while it in grave... that means gorz, laggia, and dolkka... nothing else really. Not actually that helpful....

∫pi wrote:

More to the point, you have to set Breakthrough where as you do not have to set veiler. This makes Veiler better. Furthermore, veiler is not suceptible to MST/night Beam/ decree/ Trap Stun.

It was a comparative logic. If there were a hand trap with the same ability as any of the solemn brigade I would run it over said brigade.

ah but you see unlike Veiler Breakthrough can also be used during the BP, AND it can actually be used as MST bait because you can banish it from your Graveyard during your turn to negate a monster's effect which allows you to get around Tking and the like. Where as Veiler can only be used during your opponent's main phase. Of course Veiler still has its own advatages, i.e being harder to stop, though Macro and Fissure can handle that by themselves, and generally being faster. But saying Breakthrough sucks because you have to set it is just stupid, even when comparing it to Veiler because it has a wider range of chances to use it unlike Veiler.

But really in general saying Breakthrough Skill is stupid or meh is just a idiotic statement that wasn't given any real thought. It's the same as saying Veiler and Fiendish suck. They all have their advantages and and disadvantages, their +s and -s. Breakthrough Skill is jsut as good as both those cards and is a viable choice for players who want a good generic effect stopper, just like Veiler and Fiendish. none of them suck and all have their advantages and disadvantages.

First, there is a card which beats everything called skill drain. If you don't want to negate you own effects there is the Kao'ki meiru triplet, if you want a card which you can actually run in a meta deck, veiler would be next. It works as avarice fodder, is faster (hence molds better with a fast meta), and is good BLS fodder (which is never a bad thing). Breakthrough Skill only does one thing, negate effects.

Thinking of it in terms of sheer usefulness, veiler = BLS/Avarice + tuner/1 negate.

doing the actual permutation, you have 4 different paths that you could take if you have a veiler in hand.

breakthrough = 2 negates.

There is only 1 thing you can do with this card. Simply put, it is a bad fiendish chain.

But nooooo, breakthrough DEFINATELY HAS A WIDER RANGE. IT CAN HELP YOU GET BRD, BLS, and any synchro that doesn't have an extra requirement. Veiler is better because it has more of a wide-range of uses beyond it's negating. It also does not conflict with Decree or Treacherous Trap Hole.

∫pi wrote:

First, there is a card which beats everything called skill drain. If you don't want to negate you own effects there is the Kao'ki meiru triplet, if you want a card which you can actually run in a meta deck, veiler would be next. It works as avarice fodder, is faster (hence molds better with a fast meta), and is good BLS fodder (which is never a bad thing). Breakthrough Skill only does one thing, negate effects.

Thinking of it in terms of sheer usefulness, veiler = BLS/Avarice + tuner/1 negate.

doing the actual permutation, you have 4 different paths that you could take if you have a veiler in hand.

breakthrough = 2 negates.

There is only 1 thing you can do with this card. Simply put, it is a bad fiendish chain.

But nooooo, breakthrough DEFINATELY HAS A WIDER RANGE. IT CAN HELP YOU GET BRD, BLS, and any synchro that doesn't have an extra requirement. Veiler is better because it has more of a wide-range of uses beyond it's negating. It also does not conflict with Decree or Treacherous Trap Hole.

Ok look now your getting down to specific decks. But before I get into that.

Skill Drain does not beat everything, it doesn't stop Tking, Rabbit, and the like and saying ti beats all is just bad, it also stops your own monsters which can be problematic.

The Koaki Meriu trio require you to reveal rock monsters in your hand, only good in a Skill Drain deck or a Deck centered around them.

While Veiler as a monster does have more uses, as a effect negate it has less uses. Also that whole BLS fodder is only usefull in deck that run it, and there are many other viable cards out there to use as BLS fodder to. There are much better PoA targets for allot of deck other then veiler. Also Veiler's main use is to negate effects not serves as a tuner or fodder.

Yes Breakthrough only negates monster ffects but do you even realize how much this format relies on monster effects? You don't give enough credit to 2 negations. Negating your opponent's Tking or Krysta will give you the chance to plus using your other cards.

They all have their advantages and disadvantages. But saying any of them suck, even in a comparability view makes you a mad duelist right then and there.

This format? YOU MEAN THE ONE ENDING IN 10 DAYS!!!!! BE HAPPY WITH YOUR BREAKTHROUGH FOR 10 DAYS :<

Also, Fire Kings/ Prophecy says hello breakthrough and then chuckle. Merlantean say LOL we activate in grave. DW says nab. Veiler decides to sync, what will your breakthrough do? You say MST fodder? Why would I MST a card which has been laying around for a few turns. I would rather MST the other ones.

FURTHERMORE, when did I say I was a sane duelist?

∫pi wrote:

This format? YOU MEAN THE ONE ENDING IN 10 DAYS!!!!! BE HAPPY WITH YOUR BREAKTHROUGH FOR 10 DAYS :<

Also, Fire Kings/ Prophecy says hello breakthrough and then chuckle. Merlantean say LOL we activate in grave. DW says nab. Veiler decides to sync, what will your breakthrough do? You say MST fodder? Why would I MST a card which has been laying around for a few turns. I would rather MST the other ones.

FURTHERMORE, when did I say I was a sane duelist?

ALL the decks you just said say the exact same thing to Veiler, except Merlanteans, Veiler AND Breakthrough can both slow them down. Veiler isnt reliable as a tuner because you have to normal summon it compared to tuners you can Special Summon, even though it can be used as that. And next format there aren't going to be to many big changes to the current format and thus Breakthrough will still be viable.

But really your obviously ignoring all my arguments cause you don't even reply to them so there is no point in discussing this anymore since you are being pig headed about it. .-.

There won't be many changes to the format? Well there is this card.

∫pi wrote:

There won't be many changes to the format? Well there is this card.

That's 1 change.

1 =/= many.

I never understood the point of designing a card that would become outright banned... This isn't even fan service. It's ridiculous.

oh jun, you are a KH fan?

Mim, that is like saying DAD being at 3 is only 1 change... it is only 1 yes, but is one very big one.