Wind-Up Hunter

So, this topic is the following:

Why does nobody run Wind-Up Hunter anymore in Wind-Up decks?

Cons:

1. He can no longer loop with 3x Rat and 3x Zenmaity to wreck the opponent's entire hand.
2. Doesn't help with swarming in a deck based on swarming.

Pros:

1. Limits the options the opponent has to deal with the swarm of monsters Wind-Ups can produce.
2. Has better ATK than most Wind-Up monsters.
3. Presents a different way to use Rats/Bats/Magicians who have already used up their "once while this card is on the field" effect.
4. Can still be used with Rat and Zenmaity, just not to the extremes he could before.

I personally have found many uses for Hunter at 1-2 copies in a deck. He's no longer the star of the show, but I'm curious as to why people think that he's now totally worthless just because Zenmaity is down to 1.

Because loops is dead.

If everything can't be won or nearly won because of one continuous loop, move, or a twitch of a finger, noobs won't want to play with it. Involves too much creativity.

Noob-bashing aside, Hunter's cons must outweigh the pros I guess. I don't know, I don't run Wind-ups.

Although personally, I'm happy about it.
I've always hated this guy always cramping my hands. :I

At least noobs don't call out to ban Hunter anymore (he was not the goddamn problem, Zenmaity, Shark and Factory were), we're fine.

Ah, and your Hunter costed me game last duel we had, neko v.v

This topic is turning out to be a pretty awful one. Hunter isn't being ran because he doesn't contribute to achieve the deck's goal at all. Drawing him is terrible and almost always when you have Tgu Shark or Magician Shark you would rather go for a different play, mainly involving Shock Master. That xyz is probably a huge reason why the card isn't being ran anymore. What would you rather do - discard 2 cards off of your opponents hand and pray that he doesn't come back or just straight up otk him/go for Shock Master and have a secured game next turn. In all other scenarios hunter is even worse. The only thing I would use him for is probably as a side deck for burn/final countdown but I wouldn't recommend doing that.

Last edited by Sasori on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:47 pm; edited 2 times in total

Irate God wrote:

At least noobs don't call out to ban Hunter anymore (he was not the goddamn problem, Zenmaity, Shark and Factory were), we're fine.

Ah, and your Hunter costed me game last duel we had, neko v.v

Hunter wasn't helping anything tho. :U

I'd be more happy if my opponent spams than if they sack my hand.

Torrential = my friend <3

I think it's simply the swarming factor and the Zenmaighty hit that prevents Hunter from being played. Obviously the limited section hit on Zenmaighty changed the way Wind-Ups were played, and most players that actually used Wind-Ups with skill took into account that since Hunter cannot really swarm well, and has to waste other Wind-Ups that could be used for XYZ material. But, I'm just saying this from a bystander point of view. Never played with Wind-Ups, and I've never looked into the archetype. I didn't like playing with completely broken decks.

Sasori wrote:

This topic is turning out to be a pretty awful one. Hunter isn't being ran because he doesn't contribute to achieve the deck's goal at all. Drawing him is terrible and almost always when you have Tgu Shark or Magician Shark you would rather go for a different play, mainly involving Shock Master. That xyz is probably a huge reason why the card isn't being ran anymore. What would you rather do - discard 2 cards off of your opponents hand and pray that he doesn't come back or just straight up otk him/go for Shock Master and have a secured game next turn. In all other scenarios hunter is even worse. The only thing I would use him for is probably as a side deck for burn/final countdown but I wouldn't recommend doing that.

Wait what? Since when is Shock Master the overall goal of Wind-Ups? You'd give up 3 monsters for a 2300 beater with a very situationally good effect? How is that so important? Additionally, the only way you're getting out Shock Master is by having both Magician and Factory on the field, which you're not going to achieve every duel. Shock Master is simply A COMBO THAT WIND-UPS CAN DO. He's not the reason Wind-Ups are good.

As stated in OP, I acknowledge that Hunter doesn't help with swarming. However, Wind-Ups already swarm so much, that being able to limit your opponent's options by getting rid of in-hand cards can make your swarming more effective. If you have 2-3 monsters on the field instead of 4-5, but your opponent has 2 less cards in-hand, your opponent has less available combos to use to get rid of those monsters you have on the field. This is the difference between thinking of Wind-Ups as only an OTK and swarm deck, versus thinking of them as also being a Control deck.

Also, I'm not talking about keeping him as the star of the show. I'm talking about him as a simple extra option to go with. 1-2 copies, not a full 3. There are plenty of times when that is a nice option to have, rather than limiting yourself to only very specific combos. Then again, maybe I just run an unorthodox version of Wind-Ups considering I also use single copies of Bat and Kitten - Kitten for giving me a better out for Xyz's and Synchros, and Bat to act as a 4th card for graveyard retrieval alongside the 3 Rats.

Since I already covered the things I wanted to in detail in a chat with neko I would just like to say I never in my post implied that Shock Master is the main reason Wind-Ups are good at the moment. They can simply swarm with xyz's better than other decks this format and can outpace most of them. Plus they have a nice searchability.

nekofjung wrote:

Sasori wrote:

This topic is turning out to be a pretty awful one. Hunter isn't being ran because he doesn't contribute to achieve the deck's goal at all. Drawing him is terrible and almost always when you have Tgu Shark or Magician Shark you would rather go for a different play, mainly involving Shock Master. That xyz is probably a huge reason why the card isn't being ran anymore. What would you rather do - discard 2 cards off of your opponents hand and pray that he doesn't come back or just straight up otk him/go for Shock Master and have a secured game next turn. In all other scenarios hunter is even worse. The only thing I would use him for is probably as a side deck for burn/final countdown but I wouldn't recommend doing that.

Additionally, the only way you're getting out Shock Master is by having both Magician and Factory on the field, which you're not going to achieve every duel. Shock Master is simply A COMBO THAT WIND-UPS CAN DO. He's not the reason Wind-Ups are good.

Are you serious? You can summon Shock Master on your first turn with just Magician + Shark. And if you have factory alongside Magician + Shark you can get Shock Master to lock the opponent's traps or monster effects for Gorz or whatever, and still summon 2 - 3 more XYZ's to OTK. Have you played with or against wind-ups at all this format? Shock Master is the reason Wind-Ups are still good.

Wind-Ups would still be good without Shock Master. Shock Master is just a sack T1. Past clean T1 opening plays, Shock's appearance is reduced greatly.

Hunter is not run anymore because the playstyle of the deck has changed greatly. The deck still has loops and a myriad of plays. But what's changed about it is that it's MUCH more about the grind game now than it was before when you could just spam MAity all day. If you have the opportunity to get maity, you aren't going to want to hunter because you don't have a follow up, and you're really just discarding a random card that may or may not help you out.

The game is MUCh more now about grinding with RAbbit, Factory, Magician, etc and whittling down your opponent's resources. THat's why Hunter isn't run. Wind-ups used to aim to smash towards a simplified game state by ripping the hand apart, then rolling into victory. It's much more complex now with a grind game and slow advantage with RAts/Rabbits, etc.

Shockmaster isn't directly the reason that hunter isn't run. It's more of the playstyle change, and Shock Master is a product of the new playstyle.

PS: Hunter sux to draw.

This thread gave me cancer, someone lock it please...

Locked.