Duel Academy
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Duel Academy Log in

Get your game on!


Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

power_settings_newLogin to reply
+10
Yillion
Alikaey
TDS
The_Nameless
Centrik
Jun-Lian Chang
L.Lawliet
Salader
! High Dutchman Gianus
Jue Viole Grace
14 posters

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Welcome to the 2nd Ruling Lesson of mine!

This Ruling Lesson is based on the End Phase Flow Chart and how it works, providing you with practical as well as theoretical knowledge!

Okay, right for the Flow Chart, using a very fance table.

End Phase Flow Chart
1. Turn Player Mandatory Effects
2. Non-Turn Player Mandatory Effects
3. Turn Player Optional Effects
4. Non-Turn Player Optional Effects

What's this for, you may ask now.
Simple, this chart explains how the effects resolve during the End Phase.

More explanation on the order below.

More explanations
1. Turn Player may resolve Mandatory Effects or pass to opponent
2. Non-Turn Player may resolve Mandatory Effects or pass to opponent
3. Turn Player MUST resolve Mandatory Effects
4. Non-Turn Player MUST resolve Mandatory Effects
Repeat for Optional Effects

With all this being said, I'll just go to the practical examples.

Player A controls Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner.
It is Player A's turn and Player A attempts to activate Lumina's effect, discards any card (which card is totally irrelevant to this example).
Player B then chains with Effect Veiler, targeting Lumina.

Player A then decides to pass his phases and wants to enter the End Phase.

Now, the above Flow Charts apply.

Player A is the Turn Player, means his Mandatory Effects will resolve first, then the Non-Turn Player's Mandatory Effects (Non-Turn Player will be refered to as NTP for simplicity in future mention) will resolve.
Applying the second Flow Chart, Player A chooses to pass once before resolving Lumina's effect.
Player B may now decide whether to or not to resolve Veiler's lingering effect (I will talk about lingering effects at another time, for now, just note that this effect is called a lingering effect). If he decides to resolve the effect, Player A then must resolve Lumina's effect, without it being negated by Effect Veiler, since Player B chose to resolve it.
Otherwise, if Player B decides to pass to the opponent, Lumina MUST now activate and it will be negated by Effect Veiler.

For short, Player B has the total control over Player A's Lumina and whether Lumina will send the top 3 cards of Player A's deck to the graveyard or not.

The second practical example makes it clear how Optional Effects work with Effect Veiler.

Assume Player A Normal Summoned Genex Neutron during his Main Phase 1.
Player B chooses to activate Effect Veiler's effect, thinking that it will prevent Genex Neutron's effect resolution in the End Phase.

Carrying on towards the End Phase, we apply the End Phase Flow Charts.
Genex Neutron's effect is, well noted, an Optional Effect.

Player A has no Mandatory Effects to resolve (we will assume he has no effects to resolve, since I mentioned no examples for this).
Player B now has Effect Veiler's Mandatory Effect to resolve, which, in any circumstance, resolves before the effect of Genex Neutron.
Player A can now safely resolve Genex Neutron's effect, without having to think about Effect Veiler.

For above examples, basically every optional End Phase effect applies, such as Justice of Prophecy, Fool of Prophecy and such.

I will end my Ruling Lesson at this.
Thanks for reading~


Last edited by Behemoth on Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:29 am; edited 2 times in total

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Fist chart says "Optional effects" at point 3.
Second chart says "Mandatory effects".

Probably a typo.

Good Ruling Lesson!

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Yeah, you're right, 4.) of Chart #1 should be Optional as well.

Thank you for pointing that out.

And thanks Wink

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
It's strange


I actually understood some of this...

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
No need to feel ashamed for understanding it, I have purposefully written it easily and simply for you people to understand.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
This is much more simple than the one I have xD Good job, +1.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
This seems simple but can help tremendously. Thank you so much! :D

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Thank you, thank you.

Do you have any specific theme I should write a ruling lesson about, next?

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Could you do a lesson on flip summons, effects, reverse flips, etc. ? I've been playing some friends and have found conflicting rulings about the rules of flip summons when other monster/spell/traps come into play.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
An article/lesson about Conjunction Functions. A lot of people (even "good players") don't know them.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
An article about "All kind of monster's effect" is pretty good for almost all of people.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Eh, I'll choose Continuous, Lingering and Condition [Effects].

L, care to specify what you mean with Conjuction Fuctions? I could do a mathematical explanation and I could describe how variables, objects and methods can inherit functions in JavaScript.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
+1, good article Irate :D

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
+1 man so pro :D

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
I don't get it. Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  2258053468

I'll take my time to read over it again... still a nice lesson though. +1

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Behemoth wrote:
Eh, I'll choose Continuous, Lingering and Condition [Effects].

L, care to specify what you mean with Conjuction Fuctions? I could do a mathematical explanation and I could describe how variables, objects and methods can inherit functions in JavaScript.


It's about card text:

Then
Also
And if you do
And

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Oh yes, those are nice.

I'll go over them maybe in Ruling Lesson #4, assuming Ruling Lesson #3 will be about Lingering etc [Effects].

I put Effects in [] to visualize that Conditions are not effects on their own, rather restrictions.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
The second example doesn't apply the second chart, right?

If I'm not wrong, I realized that we only need to use the second chart if both monsters have the same kind of Trigger Effect (Mandatory or Optional). I think like this because the second example is much easier than the first one.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Oh yes, you will need both charts at all times, just that you can skip over the mandatory parts if no mandatory effects resolve during the End Phase.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Thanks :O Great help.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
You know that I'm always open to help you guys.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
PM me some Rulings questions >:3

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
The first example about Lumina and Veiler is easy, just imagine. If Lumina activates her effect in Turn-Player May, it will be negated because Veiler will choose to activate its effect to negate it, so Player A decides to pass the first one in the chart to activate it in Turn-Player Must. Player B has 2 situations, according to the chart:

1. If he passes the Non-Turn May, Veiler's effects. It MUST be activated in Non-Turn Must, and it will negate Lumina.

2. Player B doesn't choose to pass Non-Turn Player May and resolves Veiler's. After that, the Turn-Player Must will be applied and Lumina can get the effect.

You are welcome.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
OMG I actually understand this. Not sure if I did not read carefully or Kenon's words are easier to understand.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
You just did not read carefully, better be next time.

Anymore question?

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Yes. Please explain it further >:O Like, how Veiler negates Lumina if Veiler's effect is activated in Non-Turn Must?

I almost forget everything.

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
._. I don't think if I can explain it further. Well...about how...you already learned Chain, right?

Summary: - Activate: CL1 -> CL2 -> CL3 -> so on...
- Resolve: ... -> CL3 -> CL2 -> CL1

1. So, if Veiler activates its effect in Non Turn May, the effect will be activated first and become Chain Link 1. Lumina MUST activate her effect in Turn Must, so it will become Chain Link 2. Now, let's resolve it:

- Chain Link 2: Lumina mills 3 cards -> Chain Link 1: Veiler negates Lumina.

So basically Veiler will do nothing since Lumina already activated her effect BEFORE Veiler.

2. The same with this one. Lumina MUST activate her effect in Turn Must, and it will be Chain Link 1. Veiler will need to activate its effect in Non Turn Must so it will become Chain Link 2. We need to resolve it again:

- Chain Link 2: Effect Veiler targets Lumina, preventing Lumina from milling 3 cards out of A's deck -> Chain Link 1: Lumina can do nothing, she just stands there and has fun.

Hope you understand, I have even explained it in details e.e

Last edited by Soulstar on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammars + Correct mistyped letters)

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
I feel so stupid... Surprised

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Nice one Irate, this is a very valuable lesson that helps on a lot of cases
Thanks :D

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
Thank you for the lessom Wink

descriptionRuling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.  EmptyRe: Ruling Lesson #2: The end isn't really the end.

more_horiz
privacy_tip Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
power_settings_newLogin to reply