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Shaddoll Discussion Thread

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DeathStalker
~Infernoid Ruler~
Anzo
Gremlin
gaddster030198
wh0_ar3_y0u
Alex401k
L.Lawliet
psychoturtle
Etwizzy
DDS
Galaksii
Skitoritto
Jv
18 posters

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First topic message reminder :

Shaddoll Discussion Thread - Page 2 6lJ87w0

Introduction

In the abyss of this world, there is a certain something called the "Shaddoll Core" (The Primordial "Core" of Shadow-Possession) which gives birth to shadows that absorb light, the "Shaddoll".
"El Shaddoll Construct" uses these shadow strings to control the manifested shadows, and with this to extend its influence and power...

''Shaddoll'' is an archetype that debuted in Duelist Alliance. Their focus is the Fusion Summon of the more powerful "El Shaddoll" monsters, which restrict or punish Special Summons.
The Main Deck "Shaddoll" monsters all have Flip Effects that focus on searching and field advantage, as well as secondary effects that focus on regaining advantage whenever they are sent to the Graveyard by a card effect.

Archtype Cards :


Most commonly used Non-Archtype Cards :




Playing style


Although the main strategy of the Deck is the Fusion Summon of "El Shaddoll" monsters, the "Shaddoll" monsters themselves are rather disruptive, such as "Shaddoll Dragon", who bounces cards when flipped face-up or "Shaddoll Squamata", who destroys monsters when flipped. In the other hand, they also have effects that activate when they are sent to the Graveyard, such as "Dragon", which destroys one of your opponent's Spell/Trap cards; "Shaddoll Falco" Special Summons itself in face-down Defense Position, while "Shaddoll Hedgehog" searches for a "Shaddoll" monster. These effects give the player advantage and set ups for future plays, while punishing the opponent. Because "Falco" is also a Tuner, the player also can have Synchro Summoning options.

However all "Shaddoll" monsters can only use one of their effects and only once that turn so while the players are advised discretion, they can also plan ahead. Cards like "Sinister Shadow Games" can be very effective since they can send a "Shaddoll" monster from the Deck to the Graveyard and then flip any possible Set "Shaddoll" monsters to use many effects in combination during the opponent's turn.

One can also take profit of their effects by using them as Fusion Material for the ace cards of the Deck: the "El Shaddoll" Fusion monsters. Since using "Shaddoll Fusion" or "El Shaddoll Fusion" involves sending "Shaddoll" monsters to the Graveyard by a card effect, their effects can be activated as soon as one attempts to Fusion Summon them, creating even more advantage. One can also use "Curse of the Shadow Prison" to not only weaken the opponent's monsters but also use their monsters as Fusion Materials.

The aforementioned "El Shaddoll" monsters rely on anti-supporting Special Summons, either by restricting them, negating them, destroying Special Summoned monsters in battle or destroying those ones who dare to activate their effects; also, some of them sends 1 "Shaddoll" card from your hand to the Graveyard at its effect's resolution, which can trigger the effect of the sent monster. Finally, they can recycle the "Shaddoll" Spell/Trap cards as long as they are sent to the Graveyard, so even if their are destroyed during or after their Summoning they can still re-add cards like "Shaddoll Fusion" to set up a Fusion Summon the next turn.

So far, the "El Shaddoll" monsters follow a pattern of requiring "1 "Shaddoll" monster + 1 [corresponding Attribute] monster" as Fusion Materials, and their effects go more aggressive as their Level increase:



Weaknesses

Since the Deck basically relies on sending the "Shaddoll" monsters to the Graveyard in order to trigger their effects, or flipping them face-up, cards like "Soul Drain" and "Abyss Dweller" or "Armades, Keeper of Boundaries", "Majesty's Fiend", "Gem-Knight Citrine" can be simple and effective. One can also use cards that banish or return the Fusion Monsters to the extra deck to avoid the retriever effect. Due to cards like "El Shaddoll Winda", cards that can do this without the need to special summon, such as "Compulsory Evacuation Device", "Phoenix Wing Wind Blast," and "Karma Cut," are recommended. The variety of Types and Attributes also makes the Fusion monsters vulnerable to floodgate cards like "Rivalry of Warlords" and "Gozen Match". "Skill Drain" is also a viable solution as it counters the anti-Special Summoning effects of the "El Shaddoll" monsters. This makes certain Decks that can use "Skill Drain" able to effectively bypass the "Shaddoll" Deck's threats.  Finally, being that most of the monsters are DARK Attribute, "Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror" and "Constellarknight Diamond" can stop them from activating their Flip and Graveyard effects.

Deck Samples :




Last edited by Tequila on Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:12 am; edited 5 times in total

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I think its safe to stay that the artifact variant will be pretty dead when the new ban list kicks in.

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shaddollfact was good but no one played it. the Chaos version is better, artfifact was only for qligays

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Well now the artifact engine has been castrated, No question, Chaos is the build.. Here I was thinking that build would never translate into the TCG because There's no heavy storm or pot of avarice.. and only 1 Dark Armed.

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Dark Duelist Soul wrote:
Well now the artifact engine has been castrated, No question, Chaos is the build.. Here I was thinking that build would never translate into the TCG because There's no heavy storm or pot of avarice.. and only 1 Dark Armed.


Are you ill? The chaos variant has been in the TCG since the beginning. The only set back it had was when the Artifact engine started topping everything and people started netdecking.

In the current meta Denko Dolls are the "only" variant that people play, mainly since anything else just lose to BA.

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L.Lawliet wrote:
Dark Duelist Soul wrote:
Well now the artifact engine has been castrated, No question, Chaos is the build.. Here I was thinking that build would never translate into the TCG because There's no heavy storm or pot of avarice.. and only 1 Dark Armed.


Are you ill? The chaos variant has been in the TCG since the beginning. The only set back it had was when the Artifact engine started topping everything and people started netdecking.

In the current meta Denko Dolls are the "only" variant that people play, mainly since anything else just lose to BA.


Dragon Dolls can beat BA with siding Denko rather than maining it.

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psychoturtle wrote:

Dragon Dolls can beat BA with siding Denko rather than maining it.


The only reason I can find for NOT maining Denko is if Shaddolls were the most popular deck. Without Denko they can't win against BA.

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L.Lawliet wrote:
psychoturtle wrote:

Dragon Dolls can beat BA with siding Denko rather than maining it.


The only reason I can find for NOT maining Denko is if Shaddolls were the most popular deck. Without Denko they can't win against BA.


They have a favored matchup g1 even without Denko, the odds aren't that big but still... their hardest matchup isn't BA.

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Has anyone tested Nepheshaddoll Fusion yet?
I cant see it being anything good personally other them making Wendigo and egrystal easier to summon.

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Roach wrote:
Has anyone tested Nepheshaddoll Fusion yet?
I cant see it being anything good personally other them making Wendigo and egrystal easier to summon.


A Fusion spell that can get MST'd. It's pretty bad imo. Safe to say that after Jan 15th Shaddolls will stop being relenvent in the TCG.

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L.Lawliet wrote:
Safe to say that after Jan 15th Shaddolls will stop being relenvent in the TCG.


Yes Shaddolls and falling victim to power creep but I think people are writing off Shads to soon. In TCG they havnt been hit hard like in OCG.

BA is 60/40 match up in our favour because of Shaddoll fusion fusioning from deck, Denko locking out there backrow & Easy Yazi access.

Qli is about 40/60 against us in my opinion.
This is a game where we really need to OTK and that isnt to much of a challenge with Scout burning up 800LP first turn and hitting for 7200 is easier then 8000. And now with Snatch Steal aswell as E-con this also became easier.

Nekroz is a pretty easy match up for us.
Construct just fucks up there monsters and the fact we can fusion summon and then tribute it to drop Vanity first turn.

Tellers is easy again just Drop Denko + Winda and say GG.

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Roach wrote:
L.Lawliet wrote:
Safe to say that after Jan 15th Shaddolls will stop being relenvent in the TCG.


Yes Shaddolls and falling victim to power creep but I think people are writing off Shads to soon. In TCG they havnt been hit hard like in OCG.

BA is 60/40 match up in our favour because of Shaddoll fusion fusioning from deck, Denko locking out there backrow & Easy Yazi access.

Qli is about 40/60 against us in my opinion.
This is a game where we really need to OTK and that isnt to much of a challenge with Scout burning up 800LP first turn and hitting for 7200 is easier then 8000. And now with Snatch Steal aswell as E-con this also became easier.

Nekroz is a pretty easy match up for us.
Construct just fucks up there monsters and the fact we can fusion summon and then tribute it to drop Vanity first turn.

Tellers is easy again just Drop Denko + Winda and say GG.


I agree with a good part of this, except the Nekroz part. Nekroz can destroy them with a single Brionac or Trishula...

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Nekroz can/will hit hard but if you drop a vanity fiend there pretty much done.
And there are a few easy ways to to get Vanity on board in this deck.

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Nekroz adapt, especially my build.

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I am intrigued Turtle Sama, All the Nekroz decks ive seen fall like the roman empire to Vanity.

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They lack main deck solutions, true, but I've found compensation.

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Nekroz can get over everything especialy Shaddolls when Trishula banishes stuff. Vanity does affect them but if you don't get it in first 2 turns, you're dead...

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You could potentially run 6 six vanitys (3 fiend 3emp) so anyone but me has a pretty good chance of drawing it in there opening hand.

Anyways enough Nekroz talk this is the Shaddoll thread.

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Roach wrote:

Anyways enough Nekroz talk this is the Shaddoll thread.


Hanzo'd


I was literally about to say that.


Anyways.. I don't think 'power creep' is strictly the right term for the gradual decline of Shaddolls. 


I mean a deck doesn't necessarily need to be  out powered to not be good any more. I think the fact that people have gotten more used to playing against Shaddolls and that upcoming decks aren't as reliant on the extra deck is more of a problem for the deck than anything.


The deck will still be relevant until it gets hit (presumably) next list.

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When you look at the support BA and Qli are getting compared to Shaddoll I think its safe to say there losing to power creep, Like come on a Equip Fusion card!?!?! Really?

Also I think another reason Shaddolls arnt getting played is because there not as auto pilot as other decks out there.

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The gradual decline of shaddolls is just Qliphorts and skill drain.
Shaddoll can rape others decks but QLiphort not so easy, so for that reason no one wanna use Shaddoll. but they are strong as always.

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But to be honest that is a pretty crappy excuse.

Shadds > BA > Qli > Shadds > BA > Qli......... (you get the idea)

And shads can beat Qli's just not as easy as BA can.

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Jv1391 wrote:
The gradual decline of shaddolls is just Qliphorts and skill drain.
Shaddoll can rape others decks but QLiphort not so easy, so for that reason no one wanna use Shaddoll. but they are strong as always.


...that's why everyone plays Artifact Variant nowdays and yet Moral is getting hit

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The Artifact version was never the best version anyway, Yes it was the best version against Qli's but it was lack luster against everything else.

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Artifact version was better pre nech,dragon/chaos post nech.

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^

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Roach wrote:
When you look at the support BA and Qli are getting compared to Shaddoll I think its safe to say there losing to power creep, Like come on a Equip Fusion card!?!?! Really?

Also I think another reason Shaddolls arnt getting played is because there not as auto pilot as other decks out there.


Wait wait... How is "Fusion from deck" skillful again?!? You play 1 card - you get to summon a 28 beatstick and you add a quick fusion spell... That's totally Skillful. Actually, it's the 1 play that make them tier 1, and once Nekroz are TCG, that play will be seen less and less, thus making the deck tier 2. Not to mention that Qli will be almost an unplayable match-up after SECE.

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L.Lawliet wrote:
Roach wrote:
When you look at the support BA and Qli are getting compared to Shaddoll I think its safe to say there losing to power creep, Like come on a Equip Fusion card!?!?! Really?

Also I think another reason Shaddolls arnt getting played is because there not as auto pilot as other decks out there.


Wait wait... How is "Fusion from deck" skillful again?!? You play 1 card - you get to summon a 28 beatstick and you add a quick fusion spell... That's totally Skillful. Actually, it's the 1 play that make them tier 1, and once Nekroz are TCG, that play will be seen less and less, thus making the deck tier 2. Not to mention that Qli will be almost an unplayable match-up after SECE.


The deck has no linear plays and the combinations outnumber BA and Qliphort combined. What makes a deck skillful is the fact that you don't need 1 minute to finish your turn like Qlip or BA.

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^ That x2

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IF thats the case then it means that Wind-Ups with the hand loop or Fish FTK are the skillest decks ever basically, because they take more than a minute to finish their turn right ?

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1. Since when did the inherent special summon became a combination?
Ouside of Cons - which has an effect that activates when being summoned, most of the monsters you'll use to "OTK" will be just beatsticks, or ofc food for E-con (which is a card not exclusive for Shaddolls). Using DAD/BLS/ChaosSorc 's effect does not count as a combination as well.
Also your deck won't be SS-ing anything other than Fusions from the Extra - and that's like 8/10 games you won't go into XYZ or Sync, thus making it a linear play - or you think that just because the levels of the monsters you have are different it makes any difference when they are fusion materials? Anyway outside of the Fusion Summon all the summons you'll be performing will come from your hand - be it Special, Tribute or Normal. Falco is the only legit way Shaddolls have to SS something from the grave, but that as well has limited plays. And even if we say that Falco is somewhat the "Combo" card that gives you access to "many many" plays, you can't use the effect unless it was set "last turn" making it a not very good combo card. So we're looking at El Shaddoll Fusion, the card that enables the OTK, as the so-called combination card. It uses field and hand. It's a very strong card, but I wouldn't say that it takes that much "skill" to play it or does it summon anything else than Winda - when you're playing defence and Cons when you're OTK-ing.

2. "BA takes 1 min to finish it's turn" - it's like you haven't played nor watched any Burning Abyss games. If you're talking about when BA just wins the game within 2-3 turns, then yeah, I guess it would be pretty fast, but Shaddolls are an OTK deck so there'll be time where you'll push on the first or second turn - making it pretty fast game as well. And if we look at the mirror matches of both decks, well BA mirrors can take for like hours, while Shaddoll is still an OTK deck that unless you brick, you will push within 3-4 turns. Also I'd like to add that Infernity was a deck that took so much time to set-up your first turn field and it took no skill whatsoever.

Anyway, in terms of plays the monsters you have in Shaddolls, as I said, serve the purpose of beatsticks or Fusion materials - plus those monsters needs to be in your hand, BAs monsters can SS from the Graveyard (Cir) and Deck (Graff), as well as from hand and Extra. Cir is far better than Falco in giving you access to a monster that's in your grave, and Shaddolls have no Graff-like monster. The only minus is that unlike Shaddolls who just SS their 2 Fusions - Cons and Winda, PLUS chaos monsters from their hand, BA can just make Dante or Virgil - you can make other rank 3s as well, but that's not the point. Both Dante and Virigl tho have effects that are meant for combo-ing, where Shaddolls have just the Cons's effect to send cards and either add El Shaddoll (most of the time), a Shaddoll monster (via Headge, if you have El Shaddoll) or SS Falco so you can use it as food for E-Con (which again, is not a card that only Shaddolls can use).
Example: SS Virgil (tuner + Scarm). Use effect - discard Graff to return a monster; SS Cir. Attack with Virgil into Cons (for example) - draw 1, attack with Cir into Cons to SS Virgil again. Go into M2 and discard a BA monster return Cons.
That is a combo. And there are many combos that BA can do. The Combos that Shaddoll have are just you using El Shaddoll or E-Con (which BA can use as well) to OTK.
Also with the support of the 3 new monsters - Farfa in particular, BA will get yet more card effects that you can combo with. While all the monsters Shadolls has and will have access to - minus DAD, BLS and Sorc (maybe Castel too), serve the purpose of a Beatstick or a Fusion Material and does not directly do anything to your opponents board, nor does it get you more monsters out of their effects (only Cons into Headge/Squamata-Falco would get you a monster).

I'll say this again, Fusion Summoning using martials from your deck is not skillful. There is no way anyone can tell me that it takes more than 10 secs - and only if you lag, to send the monsters to your graveyard. And that is pretty much your only combo. It's not NOT linear because all you do is Fusion Summon - most of the time you'll SS Cons actually, nothing else - it's not like you have any better options. Any other "combination" you might say like - Tribute the Fusion monster, use the Fusion monster for a 2nd Fusion summon - both plays in order to add a fusion spell card is just BS. I'm not saying that it's easy to OTK, but when you can get a 28 monster beatstick and a Quick spell that lets you summon another one to attack as well -thus an additional 2800 damage off of ONE card is not hard at all. Ohh and ofc E-con, since you can COMBO with White/Black dragon to add their counter part after you tribute them off. That's one hell of a combination.

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